chess

[SCfuji]

new to chess. buddy has been kicking my ass and laughing at me and im on chess tilt. this is probably my 10th game against a computer program "jchess" i found on the internet and it keeps kicking my ass as well. i dont care to post on a chess forum yet, id prefer the vast depth of knowledge that is oot.

i am white and it is my turn. whats my plan?

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/206/chess0ig.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[KingDan]

Not really a plan but bg5 seems strong here.

Threatening either bxf6 nxd5 or nxd5 right away. If be7 ne5

[A_C_Slater]

Yes I go bishop to G5 as well. You don't want his bishop taking yours and forcing you to take with pawn (avoid doubled pawns) Plus, you will be "pinning" his knight in place until he can move his queen. In order to chase your bishop away he would have to furthur weaken his kingside pawn protection.


You should PM Dynasty I think he's either an expert or even a master chess player.

[SCfuji]

he can check my king with his d6 bishop if i move my bishop.
is pinning the queen > threatening his rook?

thanks for the help

nevermind about my king being in possible check, my knight is protecting h2.

[Sightless]

bishop to h6*

[A_C_Slater]

Let him go ahead and check you king. Then you win a bishop for a pawn (3pts to 1pts) and your King in still in a secure position. Attacking his rook with your bishop at H6 is just a wasted move as it will just give him his excuse needed to move his rook to E8 where he wants it active anyway.

Attacking the knight on g5 essentialy renders his knight useless until he moves the queen.

[SCfuji]

you mean bishop? my rook cant fly over there. it would be cool if it could though.

[Sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
you mean bishop? my rook cant fly over there. it would be cool if it could though.

[/ QUOTE ]



yes

sorry mixed the pieces up, not sure how they are all called in english

[SCfuji]

thanks slater.

[Sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
Let him go ahead and check you king. Then you win a bishop for a pawn (3pts to 1pts) and your King in still in a secure position. Attacking his rook with your bishop at H6 is just a wasted move as it will just give him his excuse needed to move his rook to E8 where he wants it active anyway.

Attacking the knight on g5 essentialy renders his knight useless until he moves the queen.

[/ QUOTE ]

let him move his rook to e8, we can move the horse to g5, thus putting more pressure on his King, which is now stuck and can't move

[KingDan]

Bh6 re8 ng5 ng4 and your bishop isn't looking too good.

[A_C_Slater]

I would just like to add that I once defeated the president of the University of Michigan chess club in an impromtu walkabout match on campus.

I mean I owned him.

And I've never played tournament chess in my life.

He was suprisingly bad though. Probably not even a class C player. (I know this because I've played many tournament players in non tourney home games)

[SCfuji]

dear owner

bichbot2000 moved his fricken bishop from d6 to e7 so now i have his knight bishop and queen "pinned" if i can really pin that many pieces. i want to push my knigh up from f3 to e5 but i think some exchanging might ensue. is this a wise plan?

[Sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
Bh6 re8 ng5 ng4 and your bishop isn't looking too good.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh, you can move the bishop to g8, but then your h2 is screwed... missed that one good point

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let him go ahead and check you king. Then you win a bishop for a pawn (3pts to 1pts) and your King in still in a secure position. Attacking his rook with your bishop at H6 is just a wasted move as it will just give him his excuse needed to move his rook to E8 where he wants it active anyway.

Attacking the knight on g5 essentialy renders his knight useless until he moves the queen.

[/ QUOTE ]

let him move his rook to e8, we can move the horse to g5, thus putting more pressure on his King, which is now stuck and can't move

[/ QUOTE ]


Why would he need to move his king?

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Bishop to g5 does not seem very good. You give up the diagonal this way. You make his bishop better than yours since his is available for defence and pressure on center and both flanks while your can only use to pressure on one flank. I would hit directly at d6 (exchange your medium bishop with his good). He hits with queen. Then you play queen to b5 to try to induce a weakness for future exploitation.

[Sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let him go ahead and check you king. Then you win a bishop for a pawn (3pts to 1pts) and your King in still in a secure position. Attacking his rook with your bishop at H6 is just a wasted move as it will just give him his excuse needed to move his rook to E8 where he wants it active anyway.

Attacking the knight on g5 essentialy renders his knight useless until he moves the queen.

[/ QUOTE ]

let him move his rook to e8, we can move the horse to g5, thus putting more pressure on his King, which is now stuck and can't move

[/ QUOTE ]


Why would he need to move his king?

[/ QUOTE ]

well he would die when we would put pressure on him-_-

[A_C_Slater]

I would also like to add that there is no way I can beat the top level chess programs. Not even my expert father can. So no beginner can either. Are you playing the computer on MAX difficulty?

[SCfuji]

new to this chess terminology. one type of piece that has better position than the same type of piece in the control of the opposition is called "good"?

if we did what you suggested cant black just move his a7 pawn up one space and pressure my queen? or is this a weakness in chess that we would induce?

thanks madsen

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let him go ahead and check you king. Then you win a bishop for a pawn (3pts to 1pts) and your King in still in a secure position. Attacking his rook with your bishop at H6 is just a wasted move as it will just give him his excuse needed to move his rook to E8 where he wants it active anyway.

Attacking the knight on g5 essentialy renders his knight useless until he moves the queen.

[/ QUOTE ]

let him move his rook to e8, we can move the horse to g5, thus putting more pressure on his King, which is now stuck and can't move

[/ QUOTE ]


Why would he need to move his king?

[/ QUOTE ]

well he would die when we would put pressure on him-_-

[/ QUOTE ]


How will this pressure be applied? Where is the threat to mate?

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
Bishop to g5 does not seem very good. You give up the diagonal this way. You make his bishop better than yours since his is available for defence and pressure on center and both flanks while your can only use to pressure on one flank. I would hit directly at d6 (exchange your medium bishop with his good). He hits with queen. Then you play queen to b5 to try to induce a weakness for future exploitation.

[/ QUOTE ]


This guy is better than me.

He will help you now.

[Sightless]

anyone wanna play chess on yahoo?

[SCfuji]

jchess (http://www.queensac.com/jchess/jchess.html)

i dont know how to change the difficulty. i think you can only change the time limits but im playing on forever time. try it out. im having a tough time but im suckier than suck.

[disjunction]

I can't see the kingside attack working out. What about going after the pawn on d5 with your c-pawn?

Caveat: I can only play at about a 1700 level although I see the board a bit better than that. Haven't played in 12 years. Meaning the computer can probably kick my butt.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
anyone wanna play chess on yahoo?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll play you in about 25 minutes once I finish a sit n go.

[Sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
anyone wanna play chess on yahoo?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll play you in about 25 minutes once I finish a sit n go.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]
new to this chess terminology. one type of piece that has better position than the same type of piece in the control of the opposition is called "good"?

if we did what you suggested cant black just move his a7 pawn up one space and pressure my queen? or is this a weakness in chess that we would induce?

thanks madsen

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes,
if you are new to the game it is difficult to see, but a good placed piece like his bishop, can assist a lot of different futural moves by other pieces, giving him a bigger strategical repertoire than you. It is good placed since it more maneuvral than yours. Thus it is more valuable than yours as well. When you exchange bishops you exchange your one which is less valuable than his (due to position) and thus it is +EV.

If he moves to a6, you move your queen to b3 to keep the pressure on b7 which is weak and thus indirectly on his horce at c6 (which is weak without b7). You also apply pressure towards d5 which is a relatively weak pawn.

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
Bishop to g5 does not seem very good. You give up the diagonal this way. You make his bishop better than yours since his is available for defence and pressure on center and both flanks while your can only use to pressure on one flank. I would hit directly at d6 (exchange your medium bishop with his good). He hits with queen. Then you play queen to b5 to try to induce a weakness for future exploitation.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're probably better than me, but why not trade the f4 bishop to get rid of his knight protecting d5? All I see d6 bishop attacking is a bunch of squares protected by pawns and I don't mind it so much.

Queen to b5 at some point rocks.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bishop to g5 does not seem very good. You give up the diagonal this way. You make his bishop better than yours since his is available for defence and pressure on center and both flanks while your can only use to pressure on one flank. I would hit directly at d6 (exchange your medium bishop with his good). He hits with queen. Then you play queen to b5 to try to induce a weakness for future exploitation.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're probably better than me, but why not trade the f4 bishop to get rid of his knight protecting d5? All I see d6 bishop attacking is a bunch of squares protected by pawns and I don't mind it so much.

Queen to b5 at some point rocks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting idea. I thought of bishop g5 as a move intended to put pressure on the king side, but as you point out it can be used to pressure d5. I think it is not good enough though, since he might just use some moves to back up d5 since his bishop will give him a futural advantage.

[chesspain]

Actually, Fritz 7 recommends a combination of the two plans being suggested here (1.Bg5 and 1.Bxd6...Qxd6, 2. Qb5). Indeed, Fritz suggested the following:

1. Bg5...Be7
2. Bxf6...Bxf6
3. Qb5...Ne7
4. Qxb7...Rb8
5. Qxa7...Rxb2

This line does seem preferable to the line where white exchanges bishops, since Black's "good" bishop isn't so good after all, especially since it may well be biting on the granite of white's pawn chain for both the near and distant future.

[A_C_Slater]

Just finished playing Sightless in Yahoo chess. He was better than I thought after the Bishop to h6 suggestion /images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

We split two games each alternating between white and black. White winning each time. He was quite good at making sick interleaved pawn structures that clogged up my preferred open game plans.

The bastard.

[Punker]

The suggestions so far are moves, not plans. To make a plan, you have to study the features of the position.

Your e3 pawn is a passive weakness that should be addressed immediately.

You have a couple of plans by which to do so. The first plan is to find a way to play e3-e4, which is going to be difficult. Doing so would mean first occupying e5, then playing f2-f3, and e3-e4. Note that you can play Nf3-e5 right now, followed by Ne5xc6 and Bf4xd6, and then f3-e4. Its not clear if this leads to an advantage, but this would probably be my preferred method of play. Your king ends up a little exposed, but he will likely be stuck with a rough pawn structure; as such, you should then strive to exchange queens, and play for an endgame advantage.

The alternate plan is to hunker down in the center and leave it locked up. You can then play on the queenside by attempting to play c2-c4 at some point. The downside of this is that you will have to surrender the e4 square and a probably king side attack (since to play c2-c4, you will have to move your c3 knight, which allows black to play Nf6-e4).

Its a question of what you are comfortable with. If you don't mind defending yourself, I would play something along the lines of Nc3-e2, followed by c2-c4. If you are a little apprehensive, I'd play Nf3-e5.

It's a question of hypermodern play vs classical play; you can either fight for the center by trying to arrange e3-e4, or you can let him have the center and try and come in via the wings by making c2-c4 happen.

[SCfuji]

wow... wow. ty. so much info.

[rory]

You have a tactic. Bg5 threatens the immediate win of the d5 pawn. The only defense is Be7 after which Qb5 wins the d5 pawn.

[Punker]

1.Bg5 Be7 2.Qb5 Ne4 3.Bxe7 Nxe7 should hold the d5 pawn I believe. If you want to go grabbing b7, good luck. You'll lose b2 back shortly and have to contend with a monster black center.

[rory]

white picks up the a pawn too. that should be enough to win. black does have a monster center but doesn't really have any place to go with it.

[bugstud]

bg5 be7 bxf6 bxf6 Qb5 looks like an improved line tactically

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes I go bishop to G5 as well. You don't want his bishop taking yours and forcing you to take with pawn (avoid doubled pawns) Plus, you will be "pinning" his knight in place until he can move his queen. In order to chase your bishop away he would have to furthur weaken his kingside pawn protection.


You should PM Dynasty I think he's either an expert or even a master chess player.

[/ QUOTE ]

curtains is a better choice

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]

1. Bg5...Be7
2. Bxf6...Bxf6


[/ QUOTE ]

This is the right idea. There is no good bishop with 16 pawns on the board. Black's f6 knight is a much better piece than white's bishop, so this is a good trade for white.

The rest of Fritz's line is messy. After exchanging on f6 you can also play on the queenside with ideas of b4, Na4-c5, c4, Rc1 etc.

[SCfuji]

i moved the bishop and got rocked. it was actually looking good for about 6 moves too. effing computer. can any of you guys actually beat this fricken jchess pos?

[Punker]

definitely true. Curtains will pwn any other advice.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
definitely true. Curtains will pwn any other advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

unless we have some unnamed GM luirking on the boards or something

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
can any of you guys actually beat this fricken jchess pos?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am pwning it now.

I didn't record the first game, but here is the 2nd one:


White: TimM
Black: jchess

1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Nf3 Bb4+ 4.c3 dxc3 5.Nxc3 Nf6 6.Bc4 Nxe4 7.Bxf7+ Kf8 8.0-0 Bxc3 9.bxc3 Nxc3 10.Qc2 Qf6 11.Bb3 Nc6 12.Bb2 d5 13.Bxc3 Qd8 14.Rad1 Be6 15.Rxd5 Bxd5 16.Qf5+ Ke8 17.Bxg7 Rg8 18.Qh5+ Ke7 19.Re1+ Be6 20.Bf6+ Kxf6 21.Rxe6+ Kg7 22.Ng5 Qxg5 23.Qxg5+ Kh8 24.Qf6+ Rg7 25.Re4 Ne5 26.Rxe5 b5 27.Rg5 Rag8 28.Bxg8 b4 29.Qxg7#

[Dynasty]

When you've played enough chess and have developed some skill, you should quickly be able to recognize the defining characteristic of this position.

Simply put, Black has created a serious potential weakness on his dark squares. This has occured because all the pawns on the kingside (and the d-pawn) have been advanced to light squares. This creates weakness at e5, f6, g5, and h6.

When this happens, Black often depends on his dark squared bishop to play and defend on those squares. If he were to lose the dark squared bishop, the problem can get very bad.

In addition, White's dark squared bishop is in an inflexible position. Because white has placed his pawns on the dark squares of e3 and d4, White's bishop is immoble.

Your first thought in this situation should be to trade the bishops. That is at least a good move and improves White's position. The additional option in this exact position of playing Bg5 intending to play Bxg5 on the next move and play White's two knights against Blacks' knight and bishop in a closed position needs to be looked at.

Note: for similar reasons, Black achieved and advantage when the light-squared bishops were exchanged.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/206/chess0ig.jpg

[disjunction]

OMG I actually got a chess problem right.

Jim Brier, I am now ready for your next hand quiz.

[jogumon]

Attack his centre

bxd6 qxd6
nb5 qe6
ng5 qe7
c4

[KingDan]

If anyone wants to play a game, I play on ICC (chessclub.com) and FICS (freechess.org), my username is KingDan on each.

My uscf is somewhere in the 2100s.

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
definitely true. Curtains will pwn any other advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

unless we have some unnamed GM luirking on the boards or something

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a "Gata Kamsky" that used to post, you can find him in the archives. Most of his posts don't seem to be the words of a world class chess player, but then again he had a couple of (nontechnical) posts on chess that sounded rather knowledgeable, and one where he claimed to make "final tables" in chess.

[SCfuji]

are there any general tips you can give me for chess? for example, mucking 27o and other trash in first position at a full limit holdem game is a general tip.

are certain pieces more advantageous on specific squares? should i be fighting for those squares?
how can i set-up traps so that i can force jchess to lose one of two strong pieces?
jchess did this to me countless times. hed position a knight so i would either have to lose a rook or a queen or something and id be screwed.

thanks

[Dynasty]

The most important general tip I could give is to practice tactics. This book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/188067386X/102-0500766-9488912?v=glance) is loaded with chess puzzles from simple to hard of all types. Going through this book and solving the problems wold be a great start. It would be the equivalent of reviewing yours and others poker hands here on the forum.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]

There is a "Gata Kamsky" that used to post, you can find him in the archives. Most of his posts don't seem to be the words of a world class chess player, but then again he had a couple of (nontechnical) posts on chess that sounded rather knowledgeable, and one where he claimed to make "final tables" in chess.

[/ QUOTE ]

That poster was definately NOT the famous grandmaster Kamsky.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
definitely true. Curtains will pwn any other advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

unless we have some unnamed GM luirking on the boards or something

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I'm a Grand Master. I don't feel like posting in this thread though, it is a waste of my time.

[SCfuji]

great thank you.

[JaBlue]

That book pales in comparison to the Manual of Combinations series. Get volume 1, when you finish that get Volume 2. I doubt you'll be able to finish both of these unless you take chess very seriously, but even if you just finish vol. 1 at least you will develop some tactical vision.

I think you'll have to order it from convekta as its not a common book. Try www.convekta.com (http://www.convekta.com)

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
how can i set-up traps so that i can force jchess to lose one of two strong pieces?

[/ QUOTE ]

You will not likely be able to do this. Jchess is a weak computer, but it is still a computer. Holding on to its guys is what it does best. If you can out-calcualte it, you could do this, but you'd have to be able to see at least 4-5 moves ahead for each side.

Long term planning is its weakest point, since it can only see a few moves ahead for each side. Its endgame is atrocious. It does not seem to have much of a stored opening library, so it gets in trouble there too.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
Its endgame is atrocious.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've found that the times I've been able to beat (weak) computers, it is almost always because of this fact. Just trade, trade, trade and watch the computer butcher a rook ending.

[SCfuji]

are there any stronger computers that i can play against online?

thanks

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
are there any stronger computers that i can play against onlin

[/ QUOTE ]

Give yourself an excuse to come to Vegas to play chess (http://www.chesstour.com/nao05.htm).

[Sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
are there any stronger computers that i can play against online?

thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

play agaist people

[SCfuji]

why dont we just play 50/100 stud with $20 antes heads up or i can write you a check. which would you prefer? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

get this (http://chessmaster10.ubi.com/us/whatsnew.php)

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
why dont we just play 50/100 stud with $20 antes heads up or i can write you a check. which would you prefer? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

They have classes in chess. You would be in a class with players of about equal skill.

[JaBlue]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its endgame is atrocious.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've found that the times I've been able to beat (weak) computers, it is almost always because of this fact. Just trade, trade, trade and watch the computer butcher a rook ending.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is also a good way to beat american players

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
get this (http://chessmaster10.ubi.com/us/whatsnew.php)

[/ QUOTE ]

Chessmaster has been around for a couple decades and has lots of good stuff.

[SCfuji]

cool, thanks. is battle chess weak? i always liked watching them kill each other. well, at least the computer killing my guys but it was still fun to watch.

[ QUOTE ]
cool, thanks. is battle chess weak? i always liked watching them kill each other. well, at least the computer killing my guys but it was still fun to watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey, i want credit for that one damnit! you will become bored with battlechess in about...say....oh idunno 10 seconds?

edit: i'm referring to the battle element

[SCfuji]

thank you bob great suggestion getting it soon.

[SCfuji]

[ QUOTE ]
thank you bob great suggestion getting it soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

[SCfuji]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
thank you bob great suggestion getting it soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

ahh, don't mention it

By default... I'd say take his bishop with yours. Trading even with someone who habitually kicks your a** would be considered an improvement at this point.

Although you are totally screwed here, as his next move is forward with his knight, and you won't be able to take him b/c you won't want to sacrifice your queen.

Ultimately, it looks like you need to get your rooks into it real quick here. Rooks come into play later in the game and people who constantly lose don't ever really get to use their rooks proactively. I'd say start using them now b/c this game is over.

Take his bishop...start using your rooks. In college I once beat my friend 36 times in a row at chess before he finally got me.

Actually it was a 36game un-beated streak, as a couple of those he was ahead and I forced a stale mate. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Boy was he p'ed.