99 on ragged flop.

[Akimka]

Villain is good TAG (17.4/8.5/2.2) and definatly knows what he doing. What should our hero do? Auto-muck here?

And about flop raise - is it good?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero ?????

[Paxosmotic]

What kind of hands have you seen him auto bet with? Unless he's very not-reasonable you can let it go.

[Akimka]

[ QUOTE ]
What kind of hands have you seen him auto bet with? Unless he's very not-reasonable you can let it go.

[/ QUOTE ]

As what I done.. How about flop - is it good?
Thanks for your comment! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[krubban]

I would release it on the flop. He's not betting into 4 players with just overcards and there are no draws either.

If he had been on the button it is much more likely that he would bet overcards and then a raise would have been good.

[Akimka]

[ QUOTE ]
I would release it on the flop. He's not betting into 4 players with just overcards and there are no draws either.

If he had been on the button it is much more likely that he would bet overcards and then a raise would have been good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well. What he should do with his overs here? check/call 'em? I don't think. How would you play overs from his perspective?
88 is possible holding to IMO...

[bigalt]

[ QUOTE ]
I would release it on the flop. He's not betting into 4 players with just overcards and there are no draws either.


[/ QUOTE ]

Just about the only time I see the pre-flop raiser check the flop is when they flop a monster. I think he is betting his overs a LOT of the time, and 3-betting his overs rarely (probably not enough to make calling him down from the turn profitable).

[luckycharms]

If you folded the turn, i think you played the hand perfectly... his 3bet means that you're beat, but you have the odds to try to catch your 2-outer on 4th.

If you call the turn you're going to have to call the river, and I don't think that's a good investment of four small bets. If you really don't think you're beat, you've got position, so you should raise the turn. You might get him to fold QJ or KJ. Additionally, you can be positive that your muck is good if you get a reraise or he bets into the rivercard and it's not a 9

[Redd]

How does everyone feel about a pf 3-bet?

[krubban]

Well i wouldn't bet my overs here but you're right that many people will do that.
I think you're way behind the pfr or one of the limpers here to often to raise that flop profitably though.

[TheHammer24]

[ QUOTE ]
How does everyone feel about a pf 3-bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on the read of the table. The last thing you want is all the limpers to call behind you. But, I think it is reasonable to three-bet this with the hopes of eliminating a couple of limpers. You have position on pf raiser and you may be able to isolate. Eliminating T+ cards behind you is profitable.

[Carmine]

The flop raise is perfect IMO. If you have the best hand you need to protect now and have perfect position to do so.

PF I like just calling a TAG player raising out of the SB into 3 limpers with this hand. I don't mind a 3-bet PF either, but would like a specific reason to do so (IE: limpers were really bad and SB might be raising a little light for that position).

The turn is really player dependant. I find it hard to lay down a PP to just one overcard. Again, however, we have a TAG player who raised in the worst postion into several players PF. Against an unknown I would call down barring anymore overcards. In your situation you need to go by previous play, table consideration(raising light PF), straightforward/tricky player etc.

[Moneyline]

Preflop: Easy call

Flop: I like the raise. SB could easily have overcards and your raise will keep people from drawing out on you. Whether or not you call the 3bet I think depends on your read on the player. I'm usually calling here, but against TAGs who will not 3bet without a big draw, top pair, or better, I think you can safely muck now.

Turn: If I think there's enough of a chance that my opponent has AK on the flop, then I'm not going to fold on the turn when a rag hits. In fact, I'd probably raise the turn and check behind on the river. Folding to any action from SB. If SB is very aggressive, I'd just call down.

[krubban]

I think the turn is a very easy laydown. He raised pre, 3-bet flop without draws.
What do you put him on that hero beats? Calling down from the turn here is a severe leak imho.

[Moneyline]

[ QUOTE ]
If you folded the turn, i think you played the hand perfectly... his 3bet means that you're beat, but you have the odds to try to catch your 2-outer on 4th.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with this. If you're going to fold the turn if you don't improve, you need a lot better than 15: 1 to draw to a 2-outer. If you're going to call the flop 3bet and fold the turn, I think the reason is simply because you don't want to appear weak and encourage your opponents to take shots at you. However, at 2/4 I wouldn't be particularly concerned about this. Also, the SB 3betting does not automatically mean that you're behind. Many aggressive players will 3bet with AK here, especially because it's such a dry flop.

[krubban]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you folded the turn, i think you played the hand perfectly... his 3bet means that you're beat, but you have the odds to try to catch your 2-outer on 4th.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with this. If you're going to fold the turn if you don't improve, you need a lot better than 15: 1 to draw to a 2-outer. If you're going to call the flop 3bet and fold the turn, I think the reason is simply because you don't want to appear weak and encourage your opponents to take shots at you. However, at 2/4 I wouldn't be particularly concerned about this. Also, the SB 3betting does not automatically mean that you're behind. Many aggressive players will 3bet with AK here, especially because it's such a dry flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

As you pointed out this is 2/4 and i think that "many" is waay to optimistic. Maybe 1/100 times but no more then that on this flop. That's at least my experience and I've logged over 100k hands at 2/4.
As you move up in limits and opponents become more aggressive this might be true but i think your typical 2/4 tag plays pretty straightforward.

[MyTurn2Raise]

Let it go... The only possible hand you can put the person on that you beat is AK. I'm guessing less than 5% of players would raise 88 from the sb at this level. This is somewhat read dependent. I hardly see anyone 3-bet a flop with overs out of position at a 2/4 table. Implied odds probably dictate calling on the flop 3 bet. Let it go now. Those next 2 big bets are your profit for the next 100 hands.

[MyTurn2Raise]

BTW...what do you think the SB's impression was of you at this point?

Could make the difference in calling down or mucking

EDIT: Also, what are the SBs post flop aggression numbers?

[MyTurn2Raise]

IMO, 88 is not a possible holding. The player knows what he is doing and is very tight for that level (VPIP 17%). I doubt he would raise pocket 8s out of position into 4 opponents with a bet in the middle.