A poker player with morals?

Hey everybody, Im new to posting but am long time lurker/player (5-10 6max PP mostly).

I was just playing 4-8 live at a cas in Vancouver, and after seeing some crazy sh*t was wondering if its been seen before. Started out multi player pot, but heads up on the river. First guy bets, other guy calls... first guy shows rockets and the other guy mucks face down. But... after he mucks he says "wait, I had a straight"

So they flip the cards for kicks, and he has it, but then the guy with rockets pushes the whole pot to the guy who mucked... has anyone seen this before? would you do it? was a massive pot too.

I was just stunned, had to tell someone...

peace,
Jared

[dogmeat]

Cards are live until they hit the muck (the discards), so he may have still had a live hand. Yes, I've seen this before on a hand that was killed by the dealer - and I've split the pot (I'm not so generous I guess) when a player mucked a winning hand that was killed and then exposed by the dealer because another player on the table wanted to see it.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[Rosie5]

morals shouldn't apply to the rules of a game period

that was charity, not morality

[shant]

Another reason I hate live play is [censored] situations like this. I prefer to let the software handle moral situations like this.

I believe if the cards did not hit the muck, and were easily identifiable/retrievable, then the pot was rightfully his (the guy with the straight).

I saw a dealer miscall a hand at a NL table, push the chips, put the cards in the muck and then the loser realized he had a winning boat. The dealer knew he screwed up & tried to find the cards in the muck but could not. The guy that was pushed the pot acknowledged that he saw the cards and sorted out what he thought was the pot (somewhat big) out of his stack and pushed it to the other guy. The guy didn't whine or anything, how is that for morals?

[uncleshady]

Similar thing happened to me a while back in a casino. Playing too long, mucked a K 10 which turned out to be the winner when the guy next to me showed a busted straight. The dealer said nothing and I figured his straight was good and I put my cards in front of me. Then I checked his hand again and realized it was busted. I said I had the winner, and the cards were still in front of me, but the dealer mucked them anyhow. Told me the hand was dead. I flipped them over and revealed the winner. THe guy next to me collected all the chips anyhow. Then he gave me some sly grin. To prevent myself from tilting, I left. I understand it was my own fault, but it still sucks.

[Equal]

I dont understand... seems pretty clear to push the pot to the guy that truly won the pot. Makes me sick when there are people actually arguing the other side. You can't win with skill, you have to rules lawyer a guy out of the pot?

Grow up you thieves.

[SA125]

It's not morals, it's the rules of the table. If his cards never hit the muck and he called they're live. Period.

[Rosie5]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont understand... seems pretty clear to push the pot to the guy that truly won the pot. Makes me sick when there are people actually arguing the other side. You can't win with skill, you have to rules lawyer a guy out of the pot?

Grow up you thieves.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, there's no argument it's the rules STUPID

Second, you can't follow the rules of the game yet you want the pot?

Grow up you crybaby/thief.

You use the term "lawyer the pot" like the game could even exist without rules

[Hoss1193]

While I've not personally been involved in a hand like this as a participant, I've seen similar things happen at my table, after I've folded and become a spectator.

In one case, the dealer pushed a pot to a guy with 2 pair or straight (I can't quite remember), and the "winner" had already started stacking, mixing the pot in with his chips, and another guy who had laid his hand down face-up only to have the dealer muck them then said..."wait, that doesn't beat a flush!", and claimed to have had 2 low cards matching the 3 suited cards on the board. Everyone else at the table said, "uh, I didn't really look at his cards, I don't know".

There was no proof either way (unless they had gone to the security cameras for review; I still don't understand why they didn't do that). Well, the amazing thing was...the dealer did NOT call the floor, but rather just counted out what the pot was by remembering the action, and paid the flush claimant a pot too, out of her own pocket, without taking chips away from the guy to whom she had pushed the pot. Took 'em right out of her tip box.

I don't think she should have done that; while it was selfless, and she was just trying to protect the integrity of the game, the two players involved I imagine felt kinda bad about it, and others not even involved may have felt a little uncomfortable about it too...kinda awkward atmosphere at the table for a while after that.

Anyway...she got way over-tipped after that, by pretty much everybody who won a pot for the rest of her down. She may have made that whole pot's worth back in extra tipping that night.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont understand... seems pretty clear to push the pot to the guy that truly won the pot. Makes me sick when there are people actually arguing the other side. You can't win with skill, you have to rules lawyer a guy out of the pot?

Grow up you thieves.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, there's no argument it's the rules STUPID

Second, you can't follow the rules of the game yet you want the pot?

Grow up you crybaby/thief.

You use the term "lawyer the pot" like the game could even exist without rules

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, someone forgot to take their meds today... /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[disjunction]

As a winning player whose income does not depend on poker, I angle-shoot against myself all the time. I'm not sure why. It has to do with (a) It not being real money while it's at the table (b) Even if it were real, the money in a single pot never means that much to me. (c) It would make me feel bad through my own warped sense of morals. If poker starts becoming unpleasant, I'm going to stop playing, and that would hurt my profits. (d) In terms of EV, I lose a little less than is in the pot because I may get that money back anyway.

At a 4/8 game, it's possible that the money was just meaningless to the guy with AA.

In any case, I wish there were more players like the guy with the rockets.

[TexArcher]

If the cards were not yet in the muck, they're still live. There is no debate about it.

[disjunction]

It looks like the dealer already pushed the pot to the guy with the aces. He had options to be an ass if he wanted to. He could have restacked his chips and confused the whole situation before it was resolved. He could have waited for someone to tell him or make him give the chips back, which may not have happened depending on the competency of the dealer etc.