2 hands from today. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

kongo_totte

08-27-2005, 06:46 PM

Hand 1

Villian is 20/10 after just 25 hands.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG ($89.10)
UTG+1 ($84.10)
UTG+2 ($93)
Hero ($98.80)
MP2 ($77)
MP3 ($102.45)
CO ($197.25)
Button ($98.50)
SB ($111.30)
BB ($223.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, Hero calls $1, MP2 raises to $3, 5 folds, UTG calls $2, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($10.50) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $8, MP2 raises to $16, UTG folds, Hero calls $8.

Turn: ($42.50) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero....?

I would open the turn if it had ragged, but I figure that A might scare alot of his holdings. What's my move?

Hand 2

Villian is 18/6 after just 35 hands. He seems a bit tricky though. We have some history. A couple of hands ago I raised in EP, flop ragged, I bet and he min.raised. I called his minraise and 2/3-potted a rag turn to which he folded.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB ($100.20)
BB ($138.55)
Hero ($118.65)
UTG+1 ($23)
MP1 ($81.70)
MP2 ($172.85)
MP3 ($95.85)
CO ($173.20)
Button ($22.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
Hero raises to $4, UTG+1 calls $4, 2 folds, MP3 calls $4, 3 folds, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($16.50) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $16, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls $16, BB folds.

Turn: ($48.50) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $23, MP3 calls $23.

River: ($94.50) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 calls $52.85 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $147.35

Please comment on all streets. Should I even bother betting the turn?

Malachii

08-27-2005, 07:04 PM

Hey Kongo,

First hand I would generally push flop after he minraises me. As played, I think you have to lead this turn for 30$ or so. Trying to checkraise here would be really bad in my opinion.

Hand 2 seems fine. The turn puts you in a really tough spot, but I think you played it alright. On the river, assuming something like a black deuce fell, what was your plan? Check/call any amount?

ajmargarine

08-27-2005, 07:07 PM

Hand #1 I probably repop him on the flop. With that minraise, you always have the possibility of a semi-bluff draw, or maybe he can't get away from an overpair. I'd rather get some more in there while I know I have the best of it. I don't think I would push there, but get him in half now, half on the turn?!?

As played, I think you have to lead the turn for full pot. Yeah, the Ace may scare him, but oh well. I still think it's possible he has AK/AQ of spades, so he would love the ace. Lead, take it down maybe, move on.

Hand #2 - Others will have to help you, I would have played it real similarly.

Malachii

08-27-2005, 07:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I would push there, but get him in half now, half on the turn?!?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure about this one. I think that reraising here with anything less than a push indicates more strength rather than less because it looks less like a semibluff and more like a set. IMHO, a push here actually has a better chance of getting called against a tight player.

Riposte

08-27-2005, 07:19 PM

Regarding the second hand, why does the J /images/graemlins/club.gif put him in a tough spot?

Also, wouldn't he want to definitely bet the turn pretty strong to shut out flush/straight draws?

Malachii

08-27-2005, 07:31 PM

Hey Riposte,

The J /images/graemlins/club.gif is actually a good card for him IMO. He's in a tough spot because it's a very coordinated board and he got smooth called. The opponent could be on a straight or flush draw, but he could also have two pair, a set, or a straight.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, wouldn't he want to definitely bet the turn pretty strong to shut out flush/straight draws?

[/ QUOTE ]
That's one possible way to play this, but OP doesn't know if he's ahead or behind here. If he bets big here, he's playing for his entire stack. I like a bet just big enough to give a draw improper odds, which is what Kongo opted to do. Alternatively, I might check the turn and see what he does... this isn't a flop to lose your stack over.

Good post btw.

fimbulwinter

08-27-2005, 07:33 PM

hand 1push flop

hand two wp

fim

ajmargarine

08-27-2005, 07:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I would push there, but get him in half now, half on the turn?!?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure about this one. I think that reraising here with anything less than a push indicates more strength rather than less because it looks less like a semibluff and more like a set. IMHO, a push here actually has a better chance of getting called against a tight player.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experience, players have a much harder time calling an all-in in this situation, than they would calling off say 2/3 of their stack. Although, upon reflection, it's probably best to just push given stack sizes.

08-27-2005, 08:04 PM

Question: Why didn't you reraise strongly on the flop with that spade draw and your top set?

kongo_totte

08-27-2005, 08:14 PM

3-betting (any amount I choose to 3-bet), will scream monster IMO. Of course, I would push a flopped OES flush draw but I don't expect him to know that, and I do expect him to fold to a push.

Sure, by just calling I risk destroying my action to an ugly turn card, but the kind of player who will call a flop push is also likely to pay off even if some draws hit the turn.

Thoughts?

EDIT: also, a problem with hand 2 is that alot of players (him maybe being one of those players) will push with any 2 on any river if I check to them. My thinking is that a decent opponent can vey easily outplay me when I am OOP on that board.

EDIT 2: an alternative line I see for hand 2 is over betting the flop and don't invest anything more if there is a turn.

imported_anacardo

08-27-2005, 08:22 PM

Hand one:

I really favor a reraise on the flop. So many cards will either make you start to worry or else kill your action. You seem to have him on precisely a pocket pair, and the action seems not unreasonable for such a read, but a flush draw with overcards is surely not beyond reason.

Having played the flop as you have, I lead this turn for half-pot. I can't help it if Villain's holding kings or queens; I'm not giving a free card here. You're in a difficult spot if he checks behind and a non-pairing spade hits the river.

jacknine

08-27-2005, 08:24 PM

I've got a question too, about Hand #2 ...
Myself, I would bet pot on turn and move in on the river and this is probably wrong. I wonder what made you take your foot of the gas on that turn and only bet 1/2 pot ?

kongo_totte

08-27-2005, 08:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've got a question too, about Hand #2 ...
Myself, I would bet pot on turn and move in on the river and this is probably wrong. I wonder what made you take your foot of the gas on that turn and only bet 1/2 pot ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Villian has not done anything stupid so far, so it's dangerous to assume he is drawing just because he smooth-called the flop. I don't know if I am ahead or behind, and I want to bet as much as possible without committing myself. 1/2 pot was about that amount.

kongo_totte

08-27-2005, 11:20 PM

Hand 2 I checked the turn (flame away!!!!!!), he pushed, I called. He had A To and MHIG.

imported_anacardo

08-27-2005, 11:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 I checked the turn (flame away!!!!!!), he pushed, I called. He had A To and MHIG.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're the best... thing... that's happened to meeee...

amoeba

08-28-2005, 05:50 AM

hand 1, I bet 25 on the turn as thats what I would do with JJ-KK.

hand 2, I think I play it similarly.