My last real Year of Poker

[DcifrThs]

well, this is it folks.

from now until may 20, 2006 will be my last year as a semi-pro poker player. from then on i will travel for a month and then in june very likely (or maybe july) start my new life.

Friday August 26,2005 i called up an investment bank at which i interviewed this past may. the MD told me that he was happy to hear from me and was going to just "put something out there" for me and i should "take it however i want."

he proceeded totell me that i did great at the interview and that he would be extending a full time position offer to me in the near future.

so this is it. i have school this year and poker after studies and on weekends but then its the 70-90hr a week grind for the first year at a big name investment bank. my 1st or 2nd choice institution.

i can't express how good this feels. all my work up to this point is about to pay off. all my studying and writing papers for the department of labor and delving into finance and accounting seems to have been worth it /images/graemlins/smile.gif

im sure many of you dont care or whatever, but i just wanted to tell more people b/c the pressure of finding a job as a 2nd year MBA student is no more.

poker has been good to me...but this will be the last year i play it as often as i do now.

2p2 has been good to me as well and ive met a lot of great guys and learned a sh*tload. clearly im around for the next year but it kinda feels a bit like a premature goodbye...b/c the realization of the rest of my life is at hand.

thats it...just wanted to share my good news.

thanks for listening.

Barron

[fsuplayer]

congrats dude.

[Philuva]

Congrats and if you could stop playing poker sooner, I think that would be even better.

[A_C_Slater]

70-90 hours a week?

Your work ethic sickens me.

But yet I respect you, in a begruding sort of way.

[bugstud]

that clearly leaves a good 100 hours for poker a week /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
70-90 hours a week?

Your work ethic sickens me.

But yet I respect you, in a begruding sort of way.

[/ QUOTE ]

i always knew poker was transatory for me.

the 70-90 hrs a week is just for the first year or 2. then i work 7-4 mostly. within 5 years i'll likely be an MD myself w/ a small team and a nice paycheck.

i wil have a 1hr commute via train to and from NYcity b/c i'll live at home to save money for a while.

my job will be located near the old WTC site and when they rebuild the subways it'll be a touch shorter

but the best is that i will be saving that money.

-Barron

[Lucky]

why not just live close to job, cut down 10 hours a week from commute and play poker. 40 hours of poker a month has got to be the smarter play?

Plus not living with folks/having a pimp crib has got to be huge +ev with all the hot golddiggers who'll now be gunning for you.

[Ulysses]

You are gonna be working on Wall or Broad or something as a first year I-banker and you're going to live an hour-plus commute away? That is crazy. If you want to save money, get a place in Battery Park City. BTW, which big name I-bank will be making you MD in 5 years? Are you coming in straight as VP rather than associate?

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
You are gonna be working on Wall or Broad or something as a first year I-banker and you're going to live an hour-plus commute away? That is crazy. If you want to save money, get a place in Battery Park City. BTW, which big name I-bank will be making you MD in 5 years? Are you coming in straight as VP rather than associate?

[/ QUOTE ]

its a title thing. not the same MD level you're thinking of.

Barron

[Barry]

Congrats on your impending entry in the the wonderful world of work in general and IBanking specifically.

It's a very lucrative life, but one with amazingly long hours for a lot of years and little time for much of a life away from the job.

Enjoy it!

[Enon]

Congrats Barron.

Considering how much work you're capable of putting into playing and studying poker, I think you'll be able to handle that sick work schedule just fine.

Can't wait to sweat you in the big mixed games at Bellagio in a few years /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Lawrence Ng]

This is a great plan. It goes to show that while poker can definitely be a great short term profession, eventually integrating back into the real work world is the best path.

I know I am already on my way too.

Keep us updated Barron.

Lawrence

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Congrats Barron.

Considering how much work you're capable of putting into playing and studying poker, I think you'll be able to handle that sick work schedule just fine.

Can't wait to sweat you in the big mixed games at Bellagio in a few years /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

nice avatar...can sophia say "raise the turn" yet?


-Barron

[Enon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Congrats Barron.

Considering how much work you're capable of putting into playing and studying poker, I think you'll be able to handle that sick work schedule just fine.

Can't wait to sweat you in the big mixed games at Bellagio in a few years /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

nice avatar...can sophia say "raise the turn" yet?


-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Sadly, she's still in the growling stage /images/graemlins/frown.gif

For those who don't know, my year old Myers parrot:

Sophia (http://students.washington.edu/goldman/superadorable.jpg)
Sophia among plants (http://students.washington.edu/goldman/Sophia.jpg)
Sophia with pens (http://students.washington.edu/goldman/pens.jpg)

[turnipmonster]

congrats on achieving your goals. just out of curiosity, putting money aside do you think you'll find investment banking a satisfying career? working 70 hours a week blows my mind, I can't imagine having a job where I had to work those hours. do you love it, or is that just what you have to do?

[turnipmonster]

the commute seems insane to me as well. get a place in brooklyn for 800 bucks a month for christsake and walk over the brooklyn bridge to work everyday, it's beautiful.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
congrats on achieving your goals. just out of curiosity, putting money aside do you think you'll find investment banking a satisfying career? working 70 hours a week blows my mind, I can't imagine having a job where I had to work those hours. do you love it, or is that just what you have to do?

[/ QUOTE ]

i love structured finance. the 70-90hr weeks are only for your first year or ttwo. then you get much more sane hours more money, and cooler work. its SOO worth it and i love it.

Barron

[GreywolfNYC]

Congrats and good luck, Barron.

[Rosie5]

I'd wager there's more people than you can count on one hand who have the job you want and aspire to be a professional card player

im not trying to say anything by that--good luck with your new endeavor /images/graemlins/smile.gif

out of curiousity (curiousity which I'm 90% sure won't be answered) how good was internet poker to you in terms of money? a number? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd wager there's more people than you can count on one hand who have the job you want and aspire to be a professional card player

im not trying to say anything by that--good luck with your new endeavor /images/graemlins/smile.gif

out of curiousity (curiousity which I'm 90% sure won't be answered) how good was internet poker to you in terms of money? a number? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

well then they should thank their lucky stars they dont have the skill or drive to give it up and do it.

i dont want that life and not to drag on my friends that have it but its just not for me. id rather be safe and secure w/ my paycheck and doing what i love.

in terms of a #, you're right. i wont answer b/c i dont think its productive. would just amke people who dont have the patience discipline and skill aspire to play higher.

i'll leave it at poker has been good to me.

Barron

[ggbman]

Wow, congrats Barron! Myhats off to you for putting in those kind of hours when you actually do, thats quite a tough feat. I don't think i could decide to put that much time into anything, i hope you really enjoy it.

I hope you have as much sucess at work as you did at poker, and i agree that giving numbers for your poker winnings would do exactly what you thought it would.

Gabe

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, congrats Barron! Myhats off to you for putting in those kind of hours when you actually do, thats quite a tough feat. I don't think i could decide to put that much time into anything, i hope you really enjoy it.

I hope you have as much sucess at work as you did at poker, and i agree that giving numbers for your poker winnings would do exactly what you thought it would.

Gabe

[/ QUOTE ]

yea...while im sure we could all use more fish at the games we play id rather not take them from the 2p2 pool /images/graemlins/wink.gif

and thanks for the good wishes.

NOW, come play some 15/30 PVT table!!!! pswd: igottajob

Barron

[rory]

Don't commute. You will hate your life. Live across the street from your job if you can.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't commute. You will hate your life. Live across the street from your job if you can.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rory is right Barron, I congratulate you on achieving this very important step in your goals, but you will become disenchanted quickly if you don't live close to your office due to the lifestyle you will be forced to live. 9/10 of the people in my building are investment bankers, the one thing I hear from them time and time again as they complain e about the hours is how glad they are that they live less than 10 minutes from their office.

You have made us all proud....

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't commute. You will hate your life. Live across the street from your job if you can.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rory is right Barron, I congratulate you on achieving this very important step in your goals, but you will become disenchanted quickly if you don't live close to your office due to the lifestyle you will be forced to live. 9/10 of the people in my building are investment bankers, the one thing I hear from them time and time again as they complain e about the hours is how glad they are that they live less than 10 minutes from their office.

You have made us all proud....

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

wake up monday and make the commute you plan to make. see if it still seems like a good idea.

[ggbman]

Hey Barron, sorry catch that the game was going last night. We'll definitly have to do a few more of these games before you become a working stiff /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gotta learn while i can.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't commute. You will hate your life. Live across the street from your job if you can.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rory is right Barron, I congratulate you on achieving this very important step in your goals, but you will become disenchanted quickly if you don't live close to your office due to the lifestyle you will be forced to live. 9/10 of the people in my building are investment bankers, the one thing I hear from them time and time again as they complain e about the hours is how glad they are that they live less than 10 minutes from their office.

You have made us all proud....

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

wake up monday and make the commute you plan to make. see if it still seems like a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

no i think everyone is right. i need to consider finding a place in NY close to the WTC site or accross one of the ponds so to speak. its definately a big enough commute that saving money is probably secondary to my mental and physical condition.

very glad i posted this and that you guys persuaded me to get a place way downtown.

and i WOULD see what the commute was like but by that time id be screwed w/ notime to look for a place. and i already know what the commute is like having done it before.

Barron

[Rick Nebiolo]

You show incredible maturity and good judgement.

That said, how did you become a "chip spewer?" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

~ Rick

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
You show incredible maturity and good judgement.

That said, how did you become a "chip spewer?" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

pretty easily...have you ever seen the 2p2 5/10 tables i play in?? i spew chips.

and thanks rick. your kind words are noted, respected, and appreciated.

Barron

[lighterjobs]

70-90 hrs a week?! was this all 100-200?

[cwsiggy]

That will be the new work schedule. I know someone who is an investment banker and they worked 50-70 hours a week for 6-7 years!!!! (Granted that was back in the flying days of the late 80's) I hope they aren't lying to you about the hours settling down after only 2. Nice job and congrats. You'll be able to play the $150/$300 table at Borgata loaded with fishies.

[Rushmore]

I'm not reading any of the other responses.

I'll just say congratulations, and tell you that anything that means I'll see you less at UB and Stars is a good thing.

Good luck.

DT

[Turning Stone Pro]

I think you'll find that you enjoy playing poker as much if not more if not your primary source of income, as I have.

Congratulations. Just make sure to schedule your vacation in July for the WSOP early - I'll see ya there.

TSP

[BarronVangorToth]

Congrats, at least now I can be the best source of Barron advice on this site...

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
the 70-90 hrs a week is just for the first year or 2. then i work 7-4 mostly. within 5 years i'll likely be an MD myself w/ a small team and a nice paycheck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone convinces themselves of this. There are lots of Associates and fewer MDs.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the 70-90 hrs a week is just for the first year or 2. then i work 7-4 mostly. within 5 years i'll likely be an MD myself w/ a small team and a nice paycheck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone convinces themselves of this. There are lots of Associates and fewer MDs.

[/ QUOTE ]

well i guess i'll soon see for myself...

Barron

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the 70-90 hrs a week is just for the first year or 2. then i work 7-4 mostly. within 5 years i'll likely be an MD myself w/ a small team and a nice paycheck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone convinces themselves of this. There are lots of Associates and fewer MDs.

[/ QUOTE ]

well i guess i'll soon see for myself...

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to be snippy. Just that the life is hard and a lot of people tire of it. Hope you're an exception. Good luck.

[ggbman]

[ QUOTE ]

Congratulations. Just make sure to schedule your vacation in July for the WSOP early - I'll see ya there.

TSP

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be very surprised if he could schedule a vacation after working a few months as an investment banker. That said, i don't know Barron very well, but he's always seemed both intelligent and methodical, so i would also assume he knows exactly what this job entails and is more then ready for it. Best of luck to you again Barron!

Gabe

[MaxPower]

Congrats. When you set up a poker game with your investment banking buddies, please put me on the list.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Congrats. When you set up a poker game with your investment banking buddies, please put me on the list.

[/ QUOTE ]

i was actually thinkin about this and i had 2 thoughts...

1) if i WERE to play poker with these guys i think it would be -ev to play my best.

and

2) if it were to become a regular thing i think its best for everyone if im honest and then proceed to teach them so we can all have fun and nobody's feelings get hurt.

and you, max, will only be invited if you play hands blind...smoke act a lot...and drink /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Barron

[lastsamurai]

Good luck on wallstreet! Make sure you have a bottle of pepto in your desk...you're gonna need it!

[MarkL444]

i hope you like coffee

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
i hope you like coffee

[/ QUOTE ]

dont touch the stuff...but after the recent findings about its antioxident contents and reduction of cancer i may start.

Barron

[midas]

Barron -

Did you have a summer job with these guys? Why not at least make the interview rounds in the fall? As other have said your projected advancement rate seems rather fast for the big shops but possibly realistic for a small structure finance boutique. Are securitizations in your future?

[magithighs]

Way to go! Congratulations.

FWIW, I'd be willing to put a good portion of my bankroll, betting that you make an MD. Very easy +ev bet.

There will be many times where you'll be disappointed, and poker will look like a good crutch to make you feel better. Coffee will be much better!! Like someone else said, I would let it go before starting my new role -- kind of freshining my mind and getting into a new routine.

I can vouch for living close to work. Always have, and it paid in spades. Funny how most people want to live near work and want to buy a condo/property nearby and keeps the values going up. When you get a chance, I'd also look into spending some of that poker money on a coold condo nearby.

Gl!
Magi

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Barron -

Did you have a summer job with these guys? Why not at least make the interview rounds in the fall? As other have said your projected advancement rate seems rather fast for the big shops but possibly realistic for a small structure finance boutique. Are securitizations in your future?

[/ QUOTE ]

i definately agree with your points.

i will also make the interview rounds at Bear and Lehman and credit suisse.

but the firm from which i received a tentative offer (yes we want you and will be extending an offer) is a big one. the #1 in deals last year by number (not overall size...i think goldman took that prize). if you are an investment banker i'll give you a hint...its located at 2 world financial center /images/graemlins/smile.gif

i did not, however, have a summer job w/ them. I had a day long interview in May before my summer and just called them back to tell them my school is starting up and that id be interested in continuing the interview process at which point i was told i could expect an offer.

and yes, this is a securitization job. pooling mortgages with the intention of securitizing the cash flows into bond issuances.

-Barron

[Ulysses]

Why don't you just say Merrill?

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you just say Merrill?

[/ QUOTE ]

its not.

Barron

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you just say Merrill?

[/ QUOTE ]

its not.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

There's another bulge-bracket firm there? I'll have to walk across the street and take a look.

[midas]

Deleted by Midas

[DcifrThs]

well i kinda did't want the name out until i got the offer in writing as at this moment its just words.

if you can still delete your post id appreciate it.

[Ulysses]

Post deleted by El Diablo

[DcifrThs]

u got a PM.

delete your post if you can, id appreciate it. thanks

Barron

[hicherbie]

edit:

residential or commercial?

I feel like I hardly know you.... ohh wait I don't.
Congrats on the job though.

roberto

[bernie]

Way to go.

It's always good to see good things happen to good people.

b

[lastsamurai]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why don't you just say Merrill?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



its not.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Stratton Oakmont? JK

[beset7]

Good Luck Barron.

I was curious, did you have a difficult time staying in the top of your class (assuming you did well to be getting off-the-cuff job offers like this) during your MBA program while playing poker professionally (or semi-professionally as the case may be)?

I'm a law student and I just finished the first year of law school in the top 1% of my class and am started interviews at all the big firms in my area. I've been supporting myself and my family w/ poker for a while now and I've found that I hit a wall at a certain point in my poker development and can go no further (in terms of stakes) due to my divided focus. Did you struggle with this at all? I'm still making my nut but I'd like to do better over the next year and I'm curious how you balanced it out.

[J_V]

[ QUOTE ]
eventually integrating back into the real work world is the best path.

I know I am already on my way too.


[/ QUOTE ]


I guess that would depend at how good you are at poker. Seems to me the better transition would be poker>>>retirement.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
eventually integrating back into the real work world is the best path.

I know I am already on my way too.


[/ QUOTE ]


I guess that would depend at how good you are at poker. Seems to me the better transition would be poker>>>retirement.

[/ QUOTE ]

and how much you enjoy the game and, more importantly, the lifestyle.

Barron

[J_V]

[ QUOTE ]
the lifestyle.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is also directly related to how good you are. But, yes, most important are answering the what you want out of life questions.

I was just annoyed with Lawrence's post implying he knows the best path.

[J_V]

Life is good.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the lifestyle.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is also directly related to how good you are. But, yes, most important are answering the what you want out of life questions.

I was just annoyed with Lawrence's post implying he knows the best path.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats fine and understood. i could see how that could come off bad. i kinda thought you were implying that i couldn't cut it as a pro or something. but im 100% certain you didn't mean that so its all good anyways.

its really different strokes for different folks. [censored], if i put the time into poker / week that im about to into work id be way more well off.

but thats not what id enjoy or could do. 70 hrs of poker a week?? id be more drained than anything the world of high finance could throw at me.

but in reality, this move too is a gamble. a long calculated one that has taken years upon years to come to fruition. i can only hope i like it ( the life) and love the work as much as i love studying it.

take care jv.

Barron

[SomethingClever]

Only read about half the thread, but just wanted to echo this sentiment:

Live closer to your job.

I had a dream job down in LA that eventually became unbearable due to 2.5 hours of commute time per day.

Oh, and congrats!

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the lifestyle.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is also directly related to how good you are. But, yes, most important are answering the what you want out of life questions.

I was just annoyed with Lawrence's post implying he knows the best path.

[/ QUOTE ]

Provide me an argument on why it isn't JV.

If you are annoyed that I think it's the best path, then you clearly haven't thought out a long term plan for yourself.

Lifestyle issues aside, if and when online poker becomes an unfeasible source of income what do you plan to do then? Or do you even have a plan? Do you not think that there may be a good chance that eventually a huge percentage of professional poker players will have to make this choice?

Lawrence

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why don't you just say Merrill?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



its not.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Stratton Oakmont? JK

[/ QUOTE ]

The firm is obviously JT Marlin.

[J_V]

If an when online poker becomes illegal. I will either start my own business or more likely B) show my poker records to a stock trading institution and get a job with them. In my experience this is very easy, especially since I have a finance degree.

Others might swim in their moneybin.

[ QUOTE ]
If you are annoyed that I think it's the best path, then you clearly haven't thought out a long term plan for yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly this might be the best long term choice for some, but, not everyone like you implied. Some online poker players make upwards of 500k a year and some make more than that. That's why I said, if you are good, you don't really need much of a plan - assuming you are happy playing poker.

[J_V]

I do, however, thinks its wise to consider that online poker might end at any time. And certainly will dry up some at some point.

[Yeknom58]

2.5 hours..it's one of those things that sound bearable until you try it out.

[TomCollins]

[ QUOTE ]
If an when online poker becomes illegal. I will either start my own business or more likely B) show my poker records to a stock trading institution and get a job with them. In my experience this is very easy, especially since I have a finance degree.

Others might swim in their moneybin.

[ QUOTE ]
If you are annoyed that I think it's the best path, then you clearly haven't thought out a long term plan for yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly this might be the best long term choice for some, but, not everyone like you implied. Some online poker players make upwards of 500k a year and some make more than that. That's why I said, if you are good, you don't really need much of a plan - assuming you are happy playing poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think more than say... 20 players make more than 500k? Say on a 5 year average, so that one shot fluke tournament winners aren't counted.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If an when online poker becomes illegal. I will either start my own business or more likely B) show my poker records to a stock trading institution and get a job with them. In my experience this is very easy, especially since I have a finance degree.

Others might swim in their moneybin.

[ QUOTE ]
If you are annoyed that I think it's the best path, then you clearly haven't thought out a long term plan for yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly this might be the best long term choice for some, but, not everyone like you implied. Some online poker players make upwards of 500k a year and some make more than that. That's why I said, if you are good, you don't really need much of a plan - assuming you are happy playing poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think more than say... 20 players make more than 500k? Say on a 5 year average, so that one shot fluke tournament winners aren't counted.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes. definately more than 20 players.

Barron

[luckyharr]

I'd say I had around 20 friends who went into i-banking when I graduated in 1998, all reputable banks in SF or NY. Not one of them is still in i-banking. Only one is still in the financial services industry and he works for an LBO. 70 hours is a pipe dream. In NY it was always 90-110 from what I've heard when you count the time entertaining clients. I recommend not commuting... you are going to be getting four hours sleep a lot of days.

That said, there were a lot of mergers in between 1998 and 2003 in i-banking which probably turned a lot of my friends away from the industry. Things may be completely different now. None of them were as excited about structured finance as you appear to be. Still, if you last 5 years in i-banking, you truly are a grinder.

[luckyharr]

Just wanted to add that all my friends were in Corp Fin or M&A. It sounds like you'll be in something more specialized and possibly less taxing. And it's great that you won't have the pressure of finding employment during your last year of school. I cerntainly did not enjoy interviewing constantly for 6 months. Also, thanks for all your poker related posts in Mid-High.