PS 2/4: River Decision

[Scotch78]

First orbit, no reads or image.

On the turn I thought that he either improved or put me on a (flush) draw. His river bet favors the former, and I also can't rule out hands like T6 and 98, so I wasn't sure if 7:1 is enough to call here.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (4 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls?

Final Pot: 8 BB

Scott

[toss]

I'd definitely raise PF having a poster in MP1 check and folded to me in CO.

Postflop seems fine as he can have several Js capable of beating you.

[Bodhi]

Why didn't you raise preflop? That should really be standard for you in this scenario.

Otherwise, I play it the same. If MP1 really improved, he would probably check-raise you on the turn. Also, if he put you on a flush draw, he should (rationally) 3 bet the flop. His turn stop-n-go can mean many things, including the possibility that he has nothing at all.

I agree, raising preflop here would have been the best idea. The first thing that popped into my head when reading this, believe it or not, was 98, and not JT. I see it all the time at these limits, people betting with OESD and trying to get everyone else. he could also have 2 pair like J7 or JT, tho, too. Everything postflop seems standard, I'd say it's worth a look since it's your first orbit to see how people play.

[naphand]

Raise pre-flop as others have said. Tsk-tsk. You should know to raise anything decent against a poster, especially here with position and a hand that can stand calls and likes folds.

Rest of the hand is fine. Yes call the River, you will be good considerably more than 1 in 7.

The Turn donk IMO is typically either (i) a player preventing the free card (a lot of players when they see 2 suits seem to atumoatically put you on a flush draw when you raise, remember this when the 3rd suit arrives and it gets checked to you.../images/graemlins/wink.gif) or an improved hand. He could have some gubbins-hand like 98 or T7 (which is why you do not want to raise here) but equally it could be Q9, T9, T8, T5, QT etc. in other words a lot of hands with a T in them including a flush draw plus T. He could be betting a 7 hand like Q7 and thinks you are drawing.

Given that you called the Turn you must call the River. Expect to lose most of the time but probably only 2/3 of the time.

The decision point is the Turn. 5 BB in the pot and you have to call 2 BB to win 6BB (when he bets the River again). So you need to be right about 1/3. This may seem quite high but I would guess that is about right, add to this the times you improve on the River and you have a profitable situation.

An important lesson you need to learn playing full is to get out of hands sooner rather than later, those extra bets put in on the Turn/River add up to a lot in some tighter games.

As a SH regular you will be used to forcing players to bet their bluffs twice, or not giving up to easy. To really improve in full games you need to learn about getting away cheap and also read Harv2b's excellent post here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=3250786&amp;page=0&amp;view=c ollapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;vc=1) . Even tho it is about $3/$6 plenty to take on board.

[chief444]

Raise preflop. Basic stuff.

A better hand probably 3-bets the flop. He could be betting a lot of hands on the turn that you beat considering the draw heavy nature of the board. I think you should raise again. Folding either the turn or river is absolutely not an option the way it played out. Not even close.