Party 22, AA 1st hand, anyone fold this?

[1C5]

Obviously no reads.
Results left in on purpose as this has happened to me a few times lately. But many other times I will be ahead. No one here folds this do they?

Poll makes no sense but I hope you get the question. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)
CO (t800)
Hero (t800)
SB (t800)
BB (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls t15, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t75</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls t60, MP1 calls t60, CO calls t60.

Flop: (t325) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t725 (All-In)</font>, MP1 folds, CO folds, Hero calls t575 (All-In).

Turn: (t1775) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t1775) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t1775

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG+1 has 6s 6c (three of a kind, sixes).
Hero has Ac Ah (one pair, aces).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins t1775. </font>

With 3 limps ahead of you, you should have bumped to about 150 pre-flop.

[YourFoxyGrandma]

I don't understand...What are you afraid of here?

[ghostface]

There isnt an option for raise more preflop.

[Profit]

I raise to 115 minimum

[rvg72]

Isn't that just about the best flop you could possibly hope for? I guess you lost to a flush? OK, just checked and saw the set of 6's...

I think the preflop raise to 75 was fine - the goal here is to be up against 1 and with three 15 chip limpers 75 will usually do this - any more and you'll end up taking the pot there and you don't want that with AA.

UTG+1 should have folded after the raise with 6's. No way any of them had KK or JJ. You had to play it like this.

rvg

[jdl22]

push isn't an option here, note that you are calling all in. I would call. I would also raise more preflop and sometimes push.

[BadMongo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the preflop raise to 75 was fine - the goal here is to be up against 1 and with three 15 chip limpers 75 will usually do this - any more and you'll end up taking the pot there and you don't want that with AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the 22s, a raise to 75 with three limpers almost guaruntees a multiway pot. As others have said, you have to raise more here if you wan to get it heads up.

As for the flop, I don't see how you can even think about folding. People will reraise all-in here with crap like KT or even QT.

[Newt_Buggs]

it looks like you're beginning to doubt yourself if you have to ask this question

[rvg72]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the preflop raise to 75 was fine - the goal here is to be up against 1 and with three 15 chip limpers 75 will usually do this - any more and you'll end up taking the pot there and you don't want that with AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the 22s, a raise to 75 with three limpers almost guaruntees a multiway pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

That hasn't been my experience at all in level 1 of a $22... A 3x raise then yeah, at least 2 of the 3 call but a 5x raise either takes the pot or has 1 caller the huge majority of the time. Once in a while you get 2 and very infrequently 3.

You are hoping for 1 but I'd rather be up against 2 with AA than 0 when there is 70 in the pot.

If there had been a min raise and then 2 callers then this is completely different and I would raise it 120 to 150 but that wasn't the case here.

Anyways, different playing styles I guess. Betting more is the safer play but betting less is much more +chip ev in my opinion.

rvg

[Shilly]

I'm all-in preflop.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
There isnt an option for raise more preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[runner4life7]

I'm not the only one that pulls this once in a while then, sweet. But you people raising to 150, do you not want to get paid off? You should be ok with 2 callers, 3 is eh..but 150 is far too high IMO, its lvl 1. I never do more than 100, usually 80 here, and no one is folding on the flop here.

[fisherman112]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise to 115 minimum

[/ QUOTE ]

why would anyone call a raise this big when they'll be oop the rest of the hand?

[starvs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I raise to 115 minimum

[/ QUOTE ]

why would anyone call a raise this big when they'll be oop the rest of the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

At the 22s I've open pushed with aces the very first hand and have been called by KQ. They'll call, alot.

[ilya]

Dude...you very nearly have odds to call if his range is exactly AKs/KJ/66!
I think you're behind here quite often but I think you have to call.

[Profit]

I don't understand.. how many sng's have you played and at what level? If you truly believe your opponents are thinking this logically you are playing beyond 22's. It is very rare that one of my raises to 115 is folded to me after 3 limpers.

[AliasMrJones]

Raise more preflop and call.

[MegaBet]

Absolute no brainer. Everyone else is correct.

[Freudian]

I think you played it fine. I hate raising to 100+ preflop here. Unlike many here I don't assume all players at the 22s are total retards. You could raise up to 90 though, but I'm fine with 75.

[KramerTM]

Not in a million years am I laying this one down at the 22s.

[Profit]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it fine. I hate raising to 100+ preflop here. Unlike many here I don't assume all players at the 22s are total retards. You could raise up to 90 though, but I'm fine with 75.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct, not all players are "total retards," but enough are to make the raise worthwhile.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it fine. I hate raising to 100+ preflop here. Unlike many here I don't assume all players at the 22s are total retards. You could raise up to 90 though, but I'm fine with 75.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct, not all players are "total retards," but enough are to make the raise worthwhile.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not on the tables I play. Most of the time the only thing hero picks up with a massive overraise is the pittance that is already in the pot. From time to time a donk calls or pushes.

With a smaller raise you will get a lot of calls you actually want. Ie, solid or semi-solid players with JJ/TT. Players with AJ/AT who want to see a flop etc.

I am not scared to death about seeing a flop three handed with AA. At least not so scared that I will make a massive overbet panic raise preflop.

[Profit]

what time of the day do you typically play? Do you find this to be true everyday or just certain days, say monday-wed?

[valenzuela]

I dont get this thread...1c5 has more experience than me and hes up like 15 K..maybe the betting action occured on the river..wtf.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
what time of the day do you typically play? Do you find this to be true everyday or just certain days, say monday-wed?

[/ QUOTE ]

I play when Party is crowded.

Of course if I have spotted players making huge mistakes in level 1 I can raise more but against a standard 22 table I think in the long run it is better to avoid bets that have the subtlety of a fog horn. Not because of the donks that call. I don't lose much by having them call a raise to 80 instead of 150 because they are likely to continue making mistakes postflop. But I lose a lot when someone with 99-JJ/AJ/AQ doesn't call a 150 bet but are willing to call an 80 bet.

I see a bet of 115 or 150 preflop here as a way to trying to implement the pushbot mentality even in level 1. I don't know if it is because people here are genuinely uncomfortable with postflop play or if they truly think they will earn more chips in the long run that way.

I might add I don't mind 2+2ers or other solid players making the massive overraise here. It has gotten me out of trouble with AK/JJ and even sometimes QQ lots of times in level 1.

[1C5]

how do you know I am up 15 k? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it fine. I hate raising to 100+ preflop here. Unlike many here I don't assume all players at the 22s are total retards. You could raise up to 90 though, but I'm fine with 75.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get why you think a somewhat larger raise is overkill. My usual raise preflop is 3-4xBB + limpers. Here 4xBB would be 60 + 3 limpers for 15 each is 45 for a total of 105. With this many limpers + people to act after you including the blinds, I think you're going to get at least 1 call. Especially at the 22's.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it fine. I hate raising to 100+ preflop here. Unlike many here I don't assume all players at the 22s are total retards. You could raise up to 90 though, but I'm fine with 75.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get why you think a somewhat larger raise is overkill. My usual raise preflop is 3-4xBB + limpers. Here 4xBB would be 60 + 3 limpers for 15 each is 45 for a total of 105. With this many limpers + people to act after you including the blinds, I think you're going to get at least 1 call. Especially at the 22's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Simply because those that are in the hand don't think in those terms. They think "ooh, I have to call another 90, better fold my AQ".

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it fine. I hate raising to 100+ preflop here. Unlike many here I don't assume all players at the 22s are total retards. You could raise up to 90 though, but I'm fine with 75.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get why you think a somewhat larger raise is overkill. My usual raise preflop is 3-4xBB + limpers. Here 4xBB would be 60 + 3 limpers for 15 each is 45 for a total of 105. With this many limpers + people to act after you including the blinds, I think you're going to get at least 1 call. Especially at the 22's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Simply because those that are in the hand don't think in those terms. They think "ooh, I have to call another 90, better fold my AQ".

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree many will think that way, but with so many limpers, blinds, etc. I also think one or more will think, "Ugh, raise to 90, well I can't fold my AQ."

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it fine. I hate raising to 100+ preflop here. Unlike many here I don't assume all players at the 22s are total retards. You could raise up to 90 though, but I'm fine with 75.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get why you think a somewhat larger raise is overkill. My usual raise preflop is 3-4xBB + limpers. Here 4xBB would be 60 + 3 limpers for 15 each is 45 for a total of 105. With this many limpers + people to act after you including the blinds, I think you're going to get at least 1 call. Especially at the 22's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Simply because those that are in the hand don't think in those terms. They think "ooh, I have to call another 90, better fold my AQ".

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree many will think that way, but with so many limpers, blinds, etc. I also think one or more will think, "Ugh, raise to 90, well I can't fold my AQ."

[/ QUOTE ]

Which brings us back to sqare one. I assume my opponents at the 22s make better decisions than most of the posters here think and (this is more important)they make more mistakes postflop than preflop.