Saving money or just weak?

Is this saving money or is it just playing too soft?

7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (hand converter (http://www.geocities.com/greenage22/7StudConverter.hta.txt))

3rd Street - (0.88 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds
Seat 2: xx xx J/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds
Seat 3: xx xx Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 5/images/graemlins/club.gif___brings-in___calls
Hero: K/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___completes
Seat 8: xx xx K/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds

4th Street - (4.88 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks
Seat 4: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___checks
Seat 6: xx xx 5/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif___checks
Hero: K/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks

5th Street - (2.44 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___raises
Seat 4: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___bets___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 5/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls___calls
Hero: K/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___folds

6th Street - (8.44 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif___raises
Seat 4: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif___bets___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 5/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls___calls

River - (14.44 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif xx___bets
Seat 4: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif xx___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 5/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif xx___checks___folds

Total pot: 16.44 BB

[Jeffage]

Good fold. One of them must have trips since none of their cards are dead.

Jeff

[Andy B]

The Queens have checked twice, and you think trips is a likely hand for him? The Nines are live, however, so trips are quite plausible for him. I think the fold on fifth is fine. I would have bet double on fourth street, though.

[Leroy Soesman]

i'm a hold'm player just learning 7stud. I post not to advice you but the other way around

With my very limited 7stud knowledge I like the 4th street check to keep the pot small (EDIT: Only if the play is loose and you think your FE is very low). A bet might be nice to get the pot heads up against the Q because the Q's might raise. (edit: wouldn't the Q's have to bet 4th street here with trips? If he hits trips he'd want to bet anticipating a raise from you tying everyone for 2 bets right? if the pair is all that he has I can see him trying for a checkraise trying to knock people out.)

thing that bothers me is that the Q's didn't reraise on 3rd. I guess that QQx would want to thin out the field significantly, QQA would want the same I'd think. Especially since one of your Ks was dead, I'd expect a pair of Qs to raise. Seeing as how the hand played out and his 3rd street play without further info I'm starting to believe he might've been rolled up and hit quads.

On fifth I guess a fold is very reasonable, you are unlikely to improve and you might be a huge dogg against either the nines or the Qs (unlikely) (hitting your A may only cost you money) I wouldn't like to see this hand through with a naked pair against 3 or 4 opponents.

Given that both my kings are dead on fourth, I thought that a check was probably best - if I double bet and I'm raised, then I either waste a bet, or end up calling down when I could be dead. I might as well take the free card and see what happens.

I was also suspicious because if I was villain I would bet hands like 10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif j /images/graemlins/spade.gif q /images/graemlins/heart.gif q /images/graemlins/club.gif or 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif a /images/graemlins/heart.gif q /images/graemlins/heart.gif q /images/graemlins/club.gif. In fact, I think that with open queens, its an automatic bet whatever you have in the hole. I'll have to throw a pair of kings to any bet.

[Jacob_Gilliam]

I may be wrong here, but unless the player with queens is very passive, i'm almost sure he has trips after checking twice. I think he's slowplaying, probably a mistake, but a lot of players do stuff like this. There's no way I would call fifth. But I don't have as much experience as many of the other posters here, so take my advice with a grain of salt. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Leroy Soesman]

If three people had already limped into the pot, would you still raise?

And if the A was suited?

If you can knock out even 1 person(usually the bring in, but quite often the early limpers also) it is worth it. You will usually not kncok out the later limpers and from them you will be extracting value. Raisem if you gotem.

[BeerMoney]

[ QUOTE ]
but quite often the early limpers also) it is worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one calls a 1/2 small bet, and then folds for 1/2 small bet more.

Sorry oh great one.

[Leroy Soesman]

My guess with this hand is that I would limp in after several callers, keep the pot relatively small compared to the SB precisely because no one is folding. I guess I would do this also if my cards were live. What about if the ace is suited?

[grb137]

saving money. no question

[jt1]

I don't understand why you wouldn't raise on 3'rd? One of your Kings is dead but you have an Ace kicker. Maybe I just don't know the starting standards, yet.

I did complete the bet on third - nobody folded.

[SA125]

The single most reliable online tell is when a player checks the card most likely to have helped his hand. Then again, the stud games on Party are so tight $5-10 and up, I think 90% of the players must read here.

How else to explain an avg pot of 3 BB's in most of the 10-20 or 20-40 games? Finding a stud game on Party where the avg pot is 8 BB's ($180) in the 10-20 is like finding a virgin in a whorehouse. It aint happening.

People say stud is dead. It's always the highest spread at the Taj. $30-60 always going daily and $50-100+ with a list on the weekends. It's always, always the highest spread game. And it's no rock garden.

[Jeffage]

75-150 at Taj typically has 4-5 people seeing 4th street, raise or not. It is dead online in many ways (still some soft spots, plus some good high stakes split games), but not in Atlantic City.

Jeff

[kyleb]

[ QUOTE ]
The single most reliable online tell is when a player checks the card most likely to have helped his hand. Then again, the stud games on Party are so tight $5-10 and up, I think 90% of the players must read here.

How else to explain an avg pot of 3 BB's in most of the 10-20 or 20-40 games? Finding a stud game on Party where the avg pot is 8 BB's ($180) in the 10-20 is like finding a virgin in a whorehouse. It aint happening.

People say stud is dead. It's always the highest spread at the Taj. $30-60 always going daily and $50-100+ with a list on the weekends. It's always, always the highest spread game. And it's no rock garden.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stud 8/b on the other hand is quite prolific. I have a full list of fish who are willing to play.

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
75-150 at Taj typically has 4-5 people seeing 4th street, raise or not. It is dead online in many ways (still some soft spots, plus some good high stakes split games), but not in Atlantic City.

[/ QUOTE ]

The stud games in the Taj are usually the best games and I'm pretty sure I know who you are. You used to play $20-40 holdem regularly but now mostly play stud, right? Young guy with short dark hair who sports a Yankee jersey sometimes.

[Jeffage]

I doubt you know me b/c I'm not there that often (mostly Borgata now unless I feel like playing stud lol). Also, while I did used to play a lot of 20-40 Hold Em and am young, I don't own a Yankees jersey. /images/graemlins/cool.gif See ya at the tables.

Jeff

[Andy B]

If you get check-raised on fourth, you can probably lay your hand down without any regrets. If you just check on fourth, you're not going to know what to do on later streets. It might cost you that one bet, but it may save you two or three. Unless you've decided to give up right then and there. The main reason I think the fold on fifth street is clear is that it's the Nines who are betting into open Queens.

[Andy B]

In my experience, which is not insignificant, very few low-limit players will check a big hand twice.

[Andy B]

If three people limped and there were two players behind me besides the bring-in, I would still usually raise with a King gone. With only one player besides the bring-in behind me, I would probably just call. Without the King gone, I would generally raise no matter what. A suited Ace wouldn't make that much difference in my assessment.