Was this unethnical?

[Matt Williams]

Last night, I was in a 9 man no-limit tourny at some guy's house. (Never been there before)

It gets down to the final 3. I am 2nd in chips and the leader has about a 2-1 chip advantage over me. At this point of the game, the blinds are $1,500-$3,000. I look down to see Ace-Queen suited so I raise to $6,000. The chip leader calls so it's heads up between the 2 of us. The flop comes Queen, 9, and 2. I bet $5,000 and the other guy said "How much do you have left, I will put you all in." I count my chips and say "I have $5,300 left." He counts the money out and pushes the chips in and turns his cards over.
I had never called, and I saw he had me beat (he had 9-2) so I mucked my cards. He's looking at me waiting for me to push my chips to him. When I don't do it, he's like "Those are my chips." I told him I never called him putting me all in and he gets all pissed. He ended up winning the tourny anyway (I came in 2nd), but I don't think they will be inviting me again. I don't think I was wrong. Was I?

[Biggenx]

he decided to show you his cards and get pissed when you don't call? What's there to discuss? How dumb the guy is?

[Kevroc]

unethnical? lol, does that mean acting very white?

[ctv1116]

Isn't his hand dead if he shows his hand before all betting is complete?

[utmt40]

No you weren't wrong in any way.

[stigmata]

How did you do anything wrong?

He just expected you to call his all-in bet -- you were given no oppurtunity to fold, which you may have done even if he hadn't shown his cards. He was really, really stupid.

[Greg J]

Yeah the rest of the posters are right -- the way you have told this story you did nothing unethical. If he, or anyone else at the tourney say you did, they are dumb.

[Matt Williams]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah the rest of the posters are right -- the way you have told this story you did nothing unethical. If he, or anyone else at the tourney say you did, they are dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, I thought so. Some of the guys last night were saying that if I had been ahead, I would have called his bet. I think it was sour grapes on most of their parts because it was the first time I played with them and I ended up in second. Needless to say, if I am invited again-I'm there! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[EStreet20]

How the hell did this guy become the chip leader if he called a raise with 9/2? Looks like this game could be very profitable for you. Christ I thought my friends sucked at poker.

Good luck,
Matt

[EStreet20]

BTW, you were right, nothing unethical here.

[ldavidjm]

[ QUOTE ]
How the hell did this guy become the chip leader if he called a raise with 9/2? Looks like this game could be very profitable for you. Christ I thought my friends sucked at poker.

Good luck,
Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm reading the action correctly hero min raised to 6k, and big stack only has to pay 3k more to see a flop from the BB. Its only 3 handed and if like a lot of tournies top two pay out he can push hero around quite a bit. Plus it looks like he's got position on hero who is the SB, and with that kind of chiplead will be able to steal the pot quite a few times regardless of his cards.

Other than stupidly showing his cards he played it fine.

[Chief911]

So let me get this straight. You only had 16,300 to start the hand, and you min-raised with AQ 1/3 your stack? Then bet 1/2 your stack on the flop? So, he puts you all in after the flop. There is 15,000 in there. You bet 5,000. He pushes for the remainder of your chips, so you have to pay 5300 for a pot that has 30k in it. So the pot is laying you 6:1 to call, and you have a 1 in 4 chance of winning the hand.

Lastly, you fold leaving yourself just more than 1.5BB.

Only thing unethical is how badly you played this hand.

Nick

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
So let me get this straight. You only had 16,300 to start the hand, and you min-raised with AQ 1/3 your stack? Then bet 1/2 your stack on the flop? So, he puts you all in after the flop. There is 15,000 in there. You bet 5,000. He pushes for the remainder of your chips, so you have to pay 5300 for a pot that has 30k in it. So the pot is laying you 6:1 to call, and you have a 1 in 4 chance of winning the hand.

Lastly, you fold leaving yourself just more than 1.5BB.

Only thing unethical is how badly you played this hand.

Nick

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Matt Williams]

[ QUOTE ]
So let me get this straight. You only had 16,300 to start the hand, and you min-raised with AQ 1/3 your stack? Then bet 1/2 your stack on the flop? So, he puts you all in after the flop. There is 15,000 in there. You bet 5,000. He pushes for the remainder of your chips, so you have to pay 5300 for a pot that has 30k in it. So the pot is laying you 6:1 to call, and you have a 1 in 4 chance of winning the hand.

Lastly, you fold leaving yourself just more than 1.5BB.

Only thing unethical is how badly you played this hand.

Nick

[/ QUOTE ]

Last night was the first time I ever played a no-limit tourny. I've only played any no-limit game once or twice, so I am not comfortable or good at playing it. I wasn't thinking along the lines you were. I was just thinking, "Oh, sh!t, he has 2 pair."

[Matt Williams]

[ QUOTE ]
How the hell did this guy become the chip leader if he called a raise with 9/2? Looks like this game could be very profitable for you. Christ I thought my friends sucked at poker.

Good luck,
Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

He called a raise w/ 9/2 because he was chip leader by a large margin and we were short-handed. But other than that, these guys were really bad for the most part. I came in 2nd and my boss who knew one of the players came in 3rd. We had 2 rebuys per person (2 max), and my boss and I were the only players not to rebuy at all. Everyone else including the winner rebought in 2 times. The reason the winner won was because 4 players including him went all-in on one hand and he ended up winning that hand.

How about no? What you are saying is that its ok to throw away the rest of your chips since you the odds is right? Even if you are beaten on the flop like he was? This seems really strange to me and a nice fold, since he saved 5,3k which he can use in a better. What if he actually doubles up next round? That puts him at a nice 10,6k at which he almost was at the start of this hand?

He would have gone out third but now instead finished second.

[FlyWf]

It's not throwing your chips away if the odds are right. Horrible but ethical play.

[dogmeat]

No.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[defence18]

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't his hand dead if he shows his hand before all betting is complete?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe the rule states that his hand is dead if he exposes his cards in a multi-way pot. However, since it is a home game tourney, that particular rule may not apply.

Assuming that's the way it really occurred, no, he either was a doofus and made a bad assumption or was pulling a trick play of his own.

[trigeek08]

If you run the math, calling in this spot will leave you with T6601, (T35600*(291) - T5300*(.709) = T6601.9, not sure if there was an extra 3k in there or not, depending on where villain and hero were with regards to the blind) while folding leaves you with T5300. Also, if you call the people at the game will think to themselves, "WTF is this guy calling the bet when he knows he is beat?" This, along with not pissing off the host by folding when he, incorrectly, thinks you had to call, will definatly get you invited back to this game, a game I would think you would love to be playing in on a very regular basis.

you should have called anyway, knowing you were behind.

Spike an ace on the river and take the pot, leaving you a much better shot of finishing 2nd.

Then watch how unethical he thinks you are, "WHAT? You called KNOWING you were BEHIND!?" "YO are a tool. GAWD u jerk!"

Then laugh, and relieve yourself on the table saying "Here's to splashing the pot motherF**ker!"

[Oblivious]

Try this one:

I was playing 4/8 at the wynn. In one particular hand Im betting the whole way with nothing but ace high. I dont improve on the river, but I throw one more bet in. The player on my left raises, and the rest of the table folds. I only have ace high, but I know this opponent is aggressive and he could be trying to take a pot off of me. I sit and think for a while and he says: "I'll show you if you want!" I pause for a split second and say: "Okay. ::shrug::" He turns over his hand and I see a missed straight draw for 9 high. Then I say "raise," and throw 16 more chips in without disclosing my hand. The whole table erupts: "he cant do that!!" My opponent is a bit stunned while he tries to figure out what just happend. I suppose he meant that hed show me his hand if I was willing to fold mine, but he mis-worded it a little bit. He mucked before I showed him my Ace high. Remarkably he wasnt too upset with me over this move I made. He said he just felt a little stupid for opening his hand.

What an idiot. I can't believe your actualy asking us if you did wrong! He is complete bafoon. Why wouldn't you be invited back just because some jerk puts you all in doesn't mean you have to call.
Buffro
patexashold-em.com

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't his hand dead if he shows his hand before all betting is complete?

[/ QUOTE ]

Could be wrong, but I believe that anytime you put your money in before turning them over your hand is live. Rick Nebiolo is a floorman. You can PM him.

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Isn't his hand dead if he shows his hand before all betting is complete?

[/ QUOTE ]

Could be wrong, but I believe that anytime you put your money in before turning them over your hand is live. Rick Nebiolo is a floorman. You can PM him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, this must be the most asked and least understood question asked on 2+2. And the answer is so easy.

It depends on the home game rule, but if someone is using the Tournament Director's Association rules, which are common now, then the hand is not dead and can never been declared dead just for exposure. Penalty maybe, dead now.
Read here for more. (http://www.pokertda.com/rules4_interface/Results/results_page.asp)

Regards,

T