detruncate
08-26-2005, 03:44 PM
I've played against what seems like an extraordinary number of opponents. No Doubt not as many as some of you, but I can still vividly remember when I was dealing with single digits and the newness hasn't completely faded.
In all the tens of thousands of Villains, there has only been one Absolute Maniac. By Absolute, I mean someone who bets and raises at every opportunity and never slows down. Everyone else has tempered their aggression with some sort of strategy. Some are better than others, all have tendencies we can pick up on if we pay enough attention. There's method in their madness, even if you can't always see it.
At the end of a session last night I had the good fortune of stumbling onto a table with our Maniac + a few other loose opponents and a surprising absence of TAGs.
What do you think happened between this...
Hand 1:
Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(9 handed)</font>
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.
Flop: (12.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.
Turn: (8.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO folds.
River: (11.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds, MP2 folds.
... and this...
Hand 2:
Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font>
Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Hero calls, SB calls, BB checks.
Flop: (6.00 SB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls.
Turn: (5.00 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls.
River: (9.00 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls.
Same Villain. Only a few hands apart. (feel free to let me know how much you hate the pf call with 3 loose players in the pot and tight blinds if you want to rub it in)
Did our Hero finally succumb to the frustration of having to play ~13% VPIP due to a remarkable absence of even halfway playable cards on his other find of the night, an extraordinarily good 40+ VPIP table with 6-7 30+ players? Did he get sucked into the Maniac's trap? Is he an overaggro testosterone monkey? Is he just bad? (ok... that one was a trick question... he's undeniably bad, but that doesn't exclude other answers).
And/or was is something else?
Here is one more vs the same Villain:
Hand 3:
Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font>
Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.
Flop: (9.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls.
Turn: (7.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG folds, MP3 calls.
River: (11.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls.
The last one holds the key bit of info. Villain is a very aggressive player who likes to push people off their hands. He's also proven himself capable of locating the raise button. So why all the stop and go?
SNGs can be confusing. Coming from a passive player, they usually indicate a lot of strength. But coming from a very LAGgro guy? These cats value aggression and trickiness. C/r's are common, even if they don't really add value. As is aggressive value betting. So why sng two streets without a 3-bet even though he hasn't been shy to raise his pairs and draws? Suspicious to say the least.
He's telling me that he wants me to fold. Under normal circumstances, my weak tight ass would be happy to oblige. But hit me over the head a few times and I eventually figure out it's raining.
The moral? When playing maniacs, aggressively exploit perceived betting patterns. And don't be afraid to put your foot on the gas. Remember that hand strength is relative. You're going to lose sometimes, but you need to push your edges while they exist.
For the results oriented:
<font color="white"> In Hand 2, my Ac Ts beat his 4c9c, in hand 3 my QQ beat his Qd9h</font>
My read wasn't infallible, and Maniacs can adjust. Like the last hand we played together:
Hand 4:
Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font>
Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>.
Flop: (5.00 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.
Turn: (5.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.
River: (7.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 9.50 BB.
Results:
SB has 4c Qd (a straight, four to eight.)
Hero has Jd Ac (high card ace.)
SB wins 9.13 BB.
I was reasonably sure that I was beaten, but he liked to turn up the wick on scary boards and folding didn't seem like a good idea. The results show why.
I don't claim to have played perfectly. But I feel like I did a reasonable job of adjusting to Villain's strategy. That's the important bit.
Much of our poker lives will be spent trying to outplay our opponents, especially HU. That means recognizing what Villain is trying to do and coming up with an effective counter strategy. It was painful to watch the other tightish players check/calling down good PPs with only one overcard on board or letting Villain push them out of the pot with what must have been showdown worthy hands sometimes or trying to make moves with hands that had no showdown value. And even more painful (but instructive) to realize that they were making exactly the sort of mistakes I make far too often.
It's not about hyper aggression, it's about appropriate aggression. Sometimes that means a passive line. Sometimes it means pushing hard in marginal situations. Do your best to recognize the when to push and when to back off, then execute without fear of being wrong. Being wrong can be expensive sometimes, but you have to allow yourself to make that mistake. There's nothing worse than knowing what you should be doing even as you're doing something else.
Happy pokering.
In all the tens of thousands of Villains, there has only been one Absolute Maniac. By Absolute, I mean someone who bets and raises at every opportunity and never slows down. Everyone else has tempered their aggression with some sort of strategy. Some are better than others, all have tendencies we can pick up on if we pay enough attention. There's method in their madness, even if you can't always see it.
At the end of a session last night I had the good fortune of stumbling onto a table with our Maniac + a few other loose opponents and a surprising absence of TAGs.
What do you think happened between this...
Hand 1:
Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(9 handed)</font>
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.
Flop: (12.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.
Turn: (8.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO folds.
River: (11.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds, MP2 folds.
... and this...
Hand 2:
Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font>
Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Hero calls, SB calls, BB checks.
Flop: (6.00 SB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls.
Turn: (5.00 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls.
River: (9.00 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls.
Same Villain. Only a few hands apart. (feel free to let me know how much you hate the pf call with 3 loose players in the pot and tight blinds if you want to rub it in)
Did our Hero finally succumb to the frustration of having to play ~13% VPIP due to a remarkable absence of even halfway playable cards on his other find of the night, an extraordinarily good 40+ VPIP table with 6-7 30+ players? Did he get sucked into the Maniac's trap? Is he an overaggro testosterone monkey? Is he just bad? (ok... that one was a trick question... he's undeniably bad, but that doesn't exclude other answers).
And/or was is something else?
Here is one more vs the same Villain:
Hand 3:
Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font>
Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.
Flop: (9.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls.
Turn: (7.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG folds, MP3 calls.
River: (11.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls.
The last one holds the key bit of info. Villain is a very aggressive player who likes to push people off their hands. He's also proven himself capable of locating the raise button. So why all the stop and go?
SNGs can be confusing. Coming from a passive player, they usually indicate a lot of strength. But coming from a very LAGgro guy? These cats value aggression and trickiness. C/r's are common, even if they don't really add value. As is aggressive value betting. So why sng two streets without a 3-bet even though he hasn't been shy to raise his pairs and draws? Suspicious to say the least.
He's telling me that he wants me to fold. Under normal circumstances, my weak tight ass would be happy to oblige. But hit me over the head a few times and I eventually figure out it's raining.
The moral? When playing maniacs, aggressively exploit perceived betting patterns. And don't be afraid to put your foot on the gas. Remember that hand strength is relative. You're going to lose sometimes, but you need to push your edges while they exist.
For the results oriented:
<font color="white"> In Hand 2, my Ac Ts beat his 4c9c, in hand 3 my QQ beat his Qd9h</font>
My read wasn't infallible, and Maniacs can adjust. Like the last hand we played together:
Hand 4:
Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font>
Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>.
Flop: (5.00 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.
Turn: (5.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.
River: (7.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 9.50 BB.
Results:
SB has 4c Qd (a straight, four to eight.)
Hero has Jd Ac (high card ace.)
SB wins 9.13 BB.
I was reasonably sure that I was beaten, but he liked to turn up the wick on scary boards and folding didn't seem like a good idea. The results show why.
I don't claim to have played perfectly. But I feel like I did a reasonable job of adjusting to Villain's strategy. That's the important bit.
Much of our poker lives will be spent trying to outplay our opponents, especially HU. That means recognizing what Villain is trying to do and coming up with an effective counter strategy. It was painful to watch the other tightish players check/calling down good PPs with only one overcard on board or letting Villain push them out of the pot with what must have been showdown worthy hands sometimes or trying to make moves with hands that had no showdown value. And even more painful (but instructive) to realize that they were making exactly the sort of mistakes I make far too often.
It's not about hyper aggression, it's about appropriate aggression. Sometimes that means a passive line. Sometimes it means pushing hard in marginal situations. Do your best to recognize the when to push and when to back off, then execute without fear of being wrong. Being wrong can be expensive sometimes, but you have to allow yourself to make that mistake. There's nothing worse than knowing what you should be doing even as you're doing something else.
Happy pokering.