Players to watch @ $55s, $109s, $215s

[Oluwafemi]

recently, i got an PM offer from a member on these boards that plays between $55-$215 to help me improve my game. shortly after that, i got another PM from another member who was asking me some questions concerning what having a coach would do for me and what level i would like it to take me. one of the interesting questions he asked was, "what would a coach do for you that this board can't?" that question got me to thinking about something Scott Fischman said:

[ QUOTE ]
watch good players play.

[/ QUOTE ]

my thing is, is there really that much of a benefit that you could out of watching other players? i ask because i plan on viewing alot of Party SNGs over the weekend and i'm looking for players to watch between $55-$215s.

[citanul]

unless you are stupid, you can learn something by being presented with a huge pile of information. so yes, watching can help.

watch hurst, watch usher, watch unarmed, watch dali maybe, watch some games without knowing any players, and see if you can pick up on who the good players are. watch some players from waterloo /images/graemlins/smile.gif

if you can't learn by watching, what can you lear by?

citanul

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
watch some players from waterloo

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
unless you are stupid, you can learn something by being presented with a huge pile of information. so yes, watching can help.

watch hurst, watch usher, watch unarmed, watch dali maybe, watch some games without knowing any players, and see if you can pick up on who the good players are. watch some players from waterloo /images/graemlins/smile.gif

if you can't learn by watching, what can you lear by?

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

and their Party names?

[raptor517]

im going to say this once, and everyone feel free to fleece me about it, but i dont think you will learn squat from watching the best players. some of the moves they make will be completely over yer head and you WILL misuse that. dont get me wrong, this is not a knock on yer ability or skills, you could be quite good, i have no idea. im just saying, to the average observer, a lot of these moves the better players will make just wont make sense, and it could potentially make them worse.

as for what a coach can do that this board cant? a lot of things actually. you will get good concise answers instead of a flame war between two people who are both completely wrong. you will get someone to look at yer hand histories and plug EVERY leak. you will get to look at some of the coach's hand histories, and get a link into THEIR mind and get to ask questions so you can understand what they are doing instead of just trying to imitate and messing it up. i duno, other stuff too but i gotta go draft my madden team.
holla

[Oluwafemi]

evilganz1
Obi_Wan1
Duck_Hunt123
jessticles
D_Ironbody

[skipperbob]

[ QUOTE ]
watch dali maybe

[/ QUOTE ]...Is it April 1st?...Have you lost your mind?...Do you hate the "OP". ?...I'm gonna notify Chuck that Mod2 has gone nutz /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
watch dali maybe

[/ QUOTE ]...Is it April 1st?...Have you lost your mind?...Do you hate the "OP". ?...I'm gonna notify Chuck that Mod2 has gone nutz /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

<--

you can tell very easily who i hate.

citanul, who knows dali is a fearsome sngs player. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
watch some players from waterloo

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

seriously, and this is not a joke. dont watch them play. dont try to understand what they do. you will put yourself at serious risk of misusing it and becoming worse. holla

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
watch some players from waterloo

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

seriously, and this is not a joke. dont watch them play. dont try to understand what they do. you will put yourself at serious risk of misusing it and becoming worse. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

who, iamcastleman/SevnFigures and Gigabet? have'nt seen them in awhile.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
watch dali maybe

[/ QUOTE ]...Is it April 1st?...Have you lost your mind?...Do you hate the "OP". ?...I'm gonna notify Chuck that Mod2 has gone nutz /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

i saw you playing a $109 on Stars.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
watch dali maybe

[/ QUOTE ]...Is it April 1st?...Have you lost your mind?...Do you hate the "OP". ?...I'm gonna notify Chuck that Mod2 has gone nutz /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

<--

you can tell very easily who i hate.

citanul, who knows dali is a fearsome sngs player. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

so what's his issue? is he struggling?

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
watch some players from waterloo

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

seriously, and this is not a joke. dont watch them play. dont try to understand what they do. you will put yourself at serious risk of misusing it and becoming worse. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

who, iamcastleman/SevnFigures and Gigabet? have'nt seen them in awhile.

[/ QUOTE ]

castleman/sevnfigures is is 12 tabling 55s currently, but on a couple diffs name than standard. hes very very very very very hyper super aggressive. and if you raise and theres any chance you will fold, hes pushing. i havent played or talked to shipit in oh i duno a year, so i have no idea whats up with him. and gigs just gig. yer better off analyzing hand histories than just watching them play. holla

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
watch some players from waterloo

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

seriously, and this is not a joke. dont watch them play. dont try to understand what they do. you will put yourself at serious risk of misusing it and becoming worse. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

who, iamcastleman/SevnFigures and Gigabet? have'nt seen them in awhile.

[/ QUOTE ]

castleman/sevnfigures is is 12 tabling 55s currently, but on a couple diffs name than standard. hes very very very very very hyper super aggressive. and if you raise and theres any chance you will fold, hes pushing. i havent played or talked to shipit in oh i duno a year, so i have no idea whats up with him. and gigs just gig. yer better off analyzing hand histories than just watching them play. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

that's easier said than done. how do you analyze a HH when you're not involved in the game. i've seen some HHs and actual full SNGs in replayer from a player named Frozen and, i think, strassa2.

[downtown]

I think he means your own HHs.

Edit- and if not, I think my time is better spent this way. Good luck either way.

[lorinda]

[ QUOTE ]
how do you analyze a HH when you're not involved in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think "Why did they do that" when you get to see their cards.
The great part is that it doesn't really matter if you get it right or not, it's the thinking that teaches you things, not the being right.

Lori

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how do you analyze a HH when you're not involved in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think "Why did they do that" when you get to see their cards.
The great part is that it doesn't really matter if you get it right or not, it's the thinking that teaches you things, not the being right.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

but what/who's HH are we talking about and where do you get it?

[lorinda]

Anyone's and get them off the site where you are watching the game.

Yours, theirs, anyones.

I'm not sure I entirely understand your sticking point here, I'm not (for once) being annoying on purpose.

Lori

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone's and get them off the site where you are watching the game.

Yours, theirs, anyones.

I'm not sure I entirely understand your sticking point here, I'm not (for once) being annoying on purpose.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you get it off the site?

*oh, and i don't expect you to be annoying. there's no reason too.*

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone's and get them off the site where you are watching the game.

Yours, theirs, anyones.

I'm not sure I entirely understand your sticking point here, I'm not (for once) being annoying on purpose.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you get it off the site?

*oh, and i don't expect you to be annoying. there's no reason too.*

[/ QUOTE ]

At least on Party, there's a hand history link at the top right where you can cut and paste out every hand that is played.

[lorinda]

If you click on the link in the top right corner, you can read through all the hands played in the tourney you are watching. (Might be last 20 hands or something, I forget)

Lori

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone's and get them off the site where you are watching the game.

Yours, theirs, anyones.

I'm not sure I entirely understand your sticking point here, I'm not (for once) being annoying on purpose.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you get it off the site?

*oh, and i don't expect you to be annoying. there's no reason too.*

[/ QUOTE ]

At least on Party, there's a hand history link at the top right where you can cut and paste out every hand that is played.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you mean i physically have to copy the hand# from whichever table, then request a history of it? seems like too much to do and not worth it.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone's and get them off the site where you are watching the game.

Yours, theirs, anyones.

I'm not sure I entirely understand your sticking point here, I'm not (for once) being annoying on purpose.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you get it off the site?

*oh, and i don't expect you to be annoying. there's no reason too.*

[/ QUOTE ]

At least on Party, there's a hand history link at the top right where you can cut and paste out every hand that is played.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you mean i physically have to copy the hand# from whichever table, then request a history of it? seems like too much to do and not worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

then dont do it if its not worth it. look over yer own histories and post hands you mess up. youll get a lot more out of that. holla

[citanul]

if you have pokertracker, you can tell it to import observed hands, crack open 4 8 or 12 tournaments, walk away, come back later and replay the tournaments at your leisure.

citanul

ps: the best way to improve at a pace that is relevant to your play is to go over your own hands, possibly with a tutor.

[curtains]

I agree with raptor that watching people play probably wont help you very much. Reading the board and learning how to think will.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
then dont do it if its not worth it. look over yer own histories and post hands you mess up. youll get a lot more out of that. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

fu and your fast 19 year old fingers.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree with raptor that watching people play probably wont help you very much. Reading the board and learning how to think will.

[/ QUOTE ]

did'nt you post a full HH and play-by-play of a $300 NL SNG on Stars that included DrEvilSluggo and Hassan on another website?

[tech]

[ QUOTE ]
hes very very very very very hyper super aggressive

[/ QUOTE ]

He's way more aggressive than that.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
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hes very very very very very hyper super aggressive

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He's way more aggressive than that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the medical term is actually ConjunctiveGigabetItis....Doug seems to get carried away with himself...

Anyway, Irie may need to step in here and correct me if I'm off...I'm no Dr. /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Yugoslav

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
evilganz1
Obi_Wan1
Duck_Hunt123
jessticles
D_Ironbody

[/ QUOTE ]

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
evilganz1
Obi_Wan1
Duck_Hunt123
jessticles
D_Ironbody

[/ QUOTE ]

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These are all decent players, I know for a fact at least one of them is a 2+2er but he gets sucked out on all the time so no neeed to worry about him these days.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
evilganz1
Obi_Wan1
Duck_Hunt123
jessticles
D_Ironbody

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

These are all decent players, I know for a fact at least one of them is a 2+2er but he gets sucked out on all the time so no neeed to worry about him these days.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea i hate that nintendo game. it sucks. OOPS! holla

[Nick B.]

yea i hate that nintendo game. it sucks. OOPS! holla

Yea, NES Open is a much better nintendo game.

[Oluwafemi]

was watching you play. that 10 2o was a [censored]! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
yea i hate that nintendo game. it sucks. OOPS! holla

Yea, NES Open is a much better nintendo game.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol ok nick, yer god at nes open. i was just giving away the 2+2er /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

[cha59]

[ QUOTE ]
im going to say this once, and everyone feel free to fleece me about it, but i dont think you will learn squat from watching the best players. some of the moves they make will be completely over yer head and you WILL misuse that. dont get me wrong, this is not a knock on yer ability or skills, you could be quite good, i have no idea. im just saying, to the average observer, a lot of these moves the better players will make just wont make sense, and it could potentially make them worse.

as for what a coach can do that this board cant? a lot of things actually. you will get good concise answers instead of a flame war between two people who are both completely wrong. you will get someone to look at yer hand histories and plug EVERY leak. you will get to look at some of the coach's hand histories, and get a link into THEIR mind and get to ask questions so you can understand what they are doing instead of just trying to imitate and messing it up. i duno, other stuff too but i gotta go draft my madden team.
holla

[/ QUOTE ]

I generally agree with this and I watch good players occassionally for entertainment. If I tried to play like them, I'd go broke. Here's an extreme example:

I was watching GigaBet in a Stars $100 rebuy earlier today and he was pushing nearly every hand (65o, 73o, 82o, K5, just about anything). He busted at least 20 - 25 times while I was watching during the rebuy period. Each time he busted, he'd rebuy twice. I think he spent about five grand.

It looked like either he doesnt like money very much or he is trying to buy those TLB points. Fun to watch, and I'm sure he has a good plan that works for him, but not a good way for most people to play.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
im going to say this once, and everyone feel free to fleece me about it, but i dont think you will learn squat from watching the best players. some of the moves they make will be completely over yer head and you WILL misuse that. dont get me wrong, this is not a knock on yer ability or skills, you could be quite good, i have no idea. im just saying, to the average observer, a lot of these moves the better players will make just wont make sense, and it could potentially make them worse.

as for what a coach can do that this board cant? a lot of things actually. you will get good concise answers instead of a flame war between two people who are both completely wrong. you will get someone to look at yer hand histories and plug EVERY leak. you will get to look at some of the coach's hand histories, and get a link into THEIR mind and get to ask questions so you can understand what they are doing instead of just trying to imitate and messing it up. i duno, other stuff too but i gotta go draft my madden team.
holla

[/ QUOTE ]

I generally agree with this and I watch good players occassionally for entertainment. If I tried to play like them, I'd go broke. Here's an extreme example:

I was watching GigaBet in a Stars $100 rebuy earlier today and he was pushing nearly every hand (65o, 73o, 82o, K5, just about anything). He busted at least 20 - 25 times while I was watching during the rebuy period. Each time he busted, he'd rebuy twice. I think he spent about five grand.

It looked like either he doesnt like money very much or he is trying to buy those TLB points. Fun to watch, and I'm sure he has a good plan that works for him, but not a good way for most people to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

a lot of people do this. i spent 471 bucks on a 11r on stars once.. and ive spent.. like 2200 on the 105r where i had to get 4th or better ot make money. i ended up getting second. his strat is purely to build a gigantic chip stack to put him in a great spot to win. he floods the table with chips that he can win back easily later. holla

[cha59]

This might work for guys like you and Giga, but for someone trying to learn from watching it, its probably not ideal.

[Michael C.]

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he floods the table with chips that he can win back easily later.

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I don't understand this last part. How do you know you won't get moved before you can get those chips back (or that other players won't get moved along with those chips)? I can understand Gigabet going for a big stack, though, considering how good he is with chips in front of him.

[raptor517]

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he floods the table with chips that he can win back easily later.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this last part. How do you know you won't get moved before you can get those chips back (or that other players won't get moved along with those chips)? I can understand Gigabet going for a big stack, though, considering how good he is with chips in front of him.

[/ QUOTE ]

in the 105 rebuys, the fields are usually pretty small, RARELY going over 200 people. hes putting so many chips on the table that they will go to someone. and if he DOESNT rebuy 13099090582 times, he has sucked out dirty, pissed everyone off, and built himself a gigantic stack. ive won the 11r on stars like 4 times using this strat. i always have 15k+ after the rebuy phase is over. gotta give yerself every chance to win. he does that, and probably doesnt give up a WHOLE lot of ev in the process. holla

[Michael C.]

Thanks Raptor... Interesting.

[Gramps]

[ QUOTE ]
It looked like either he doesnt like money very much or he is trying to buy those TLB points. Fun to watch, and I'm sure he has a good plan that works for him, but not a good way for most people to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that his TLB points bet for the month of August is somewhere in the 5 figures (I think), probably the latter. Similar to what Negreanu did in the WSOP in '04, trying to win the Player of the Year.

[citanul]

it's rarely ideal for anyone to watch gigabet to try to learn anything, but watching him in a rebuy tournament this april is extra stupid. the stakes of the tournament are very small in relation to the stakes of the prop bet, afaik, so trying to learn anything from a style which is just playing to win regardless of buyin is not so great.

citanul

[citanul]

don't watch fiery to try to learn anything. you're already a better player than he.

citanul

The one thing that beginning players can learn is patience. Most of it will be too complicated.