A terrible fold?

[Tilt]

Seat 1: Villain 1 - aggressive and unimaginative $80 in chips)
Seat 3: me ($157 in chips)
Seat 7: donkey ($28.25 in chips)
Seat 8: Burdzthewurd ($80.75 in chips)
Seat 9: Villain 2 weak tight player ($59 in chips)

I have Qh Qd Kc 9c

ANTES/BLINDS
Villain 1 posts blind ($0.50).

PRE-FLOP
I call $0.50, donkey calls $0.50, Burdzthewurd folds, villain 2 calls $0.50, Villain 1 checks.

FLOP [board cards 8D,QC,JC ]
Villain 1 bets $2, I call $2, donkey folds, weak tight bets $6, Villain 1 bets $20, I fold, weak tigh folds.

I knew that I would be getting all in if I played no matter what fell, I knew I was up against a straight with a flush draw, I knew the weak tight player had two pair and that he would fold, I thought my flush draw was covered by Villain 1. So, I figured that I had many fewer outs than it would appear.

But, my flush outs may have been live, and the weak-tight player here may be folding the A high draw. I folded more out of indecision/time crunch than anything.

Terrible fold?

[bugstud]

yeah it's a bad fold. 7/10 to a boat, a couple straight outs that might chop or even win if it's bare T9 and a possibly live flush draw, at worst a gutshot SF

[autobet]

A set and a flush draw is a favorite on the flop against a made straight. If they both have straights you are in great shape.

I would tend to raise/reraise with this hand. It plays well heads up and multi-way.

[Spellmen]

I would definately put a reraise in when it got to me

[Tilt]

Im a little surprised at the responses. If my read is correct, then I am investing a god part of a deep stack as a dog on the flop. If I blank the turn I'll be shoving in most of the rest when i am way behind....

pokenum -o ac tc 9h 7d - qh qd kc 9c -- 8d qc jc / qs 8s
Omaha Hi: 741 enumerated boards containing Qc Jc 8d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Tc 7d 9h 452 61.00 289 39.00 0 0.00 0.610
Kc 9c Qd Qh 289 39.00 452 61.00 0 0.00 0.390

I just don't see based on the flop action how my K high flush draw can be any good here. If its good, I agree shoving is the play. But without it do I really want to go deep stacked all-in heads up on that board?

[Burdzthewurd]

Holy Hell man, I thought you just folded a bare T9!!

If Villain 1 was who I thought it was (guy on your direct right?), I'd still push it up there, he was overplaying a lot of hands like big pairs and bare straights. I'm pretty sure I remember him blowing off at least $50 in 10 minutes or so. I'd be fine with pushing your hand there, there's only one combination where are you in a terrible spot (AT97 Ax clubs). Wow. (BTW, nice one-outer I hit with the KKxx hand eh? Bamafool had AKQJ and the other guy I broke on the turn had AA with a gutshot on the turn /images/graemlins/grin.gif)

[Tilt]

Yeah, you are probably right. It was a terrible fold. Shame on me.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
Im a little surprised at the responses. If my read is correct, then I am investing a god part of a deep stack as a dog on the flop. If I blank the turn I'll be shoving in most of the rest when i am way behind....

pokenum -o ac tc 9h 7d - qh qd kc 9c -- 8d qc jc / qs 8s
Omaha Hi: 741 enumerated boards containing Qc Jc 8d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Tc 7d 9h 452 61.00 289 39.00 0 0.00 0.610
Kc 9c Qd Qh 289 39.00 452 61.00 0 0.00 0.390

I just don't see based on the flop action how my K high flush draw can be any good here. If its good, I agree shoving is the play. But without it do I really want to go deep stacked all-in heads up on that board?

[/ QUOTE ]

you're putting the guy on the absolute worst hand for you he can have, essentially...except for top set/nut flush. IF he has it you can still suckout, otherwise you are favored.

[Ribbo]

Yes, terrible fold.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Im a little surprised at the responses. If my read is correct, then I am investing a god part of a deep stack as a dog on the flop. If I blank the turn I'll be shoving in most of the rest when i am way behind....

pokenum -o ac tc 9h 7d - qh qd kc 9c -- 8d qc jc / qs 8s
Omaha Hi: 741 enumerated boards containing Qc Jc 8d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Tc 7d 9h 452 61.00 289 39.00 0 0.00 0.610
Kc 9c Qd Qh 289 39.00 452 61.00 0 0.00 0.390

I just don't see based on the flop action how my K high flush draw can be any good here. If its good, I agree shoving is the play. But without it do I really want to go deep stacked all-in heads up on that board?

[/ QUOTE ]

you're putting the guy on the absolute worst hand for you he can have, essentially...except for top set/nut flush. IF he has it you can still suckout, otherwise you are favored.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hard for opponent to have top set, unless there are suddenly 5 queens in the deck.