How to start in O/8?

[diebitter]

Can anyone recommend links or sources (that aren't in the FAQ). I'd be particularly interested in any charts etc, or if you can specifically recommend what starting hands are raising hands in early/middle/late.

I've been making notes etc so I'm not just coming here blind, but the advice seems conflicting.

To me the nature of 08 seems to me to be clearly a non-raising game preflop - if you got a bad hand you fold, you got a good hand you want people in (but raising for value only increases variance without increasing profit, I reckon, because it can easily go wrong).

Am I being too dopey here, or do you think I've got a reasonable newbie handle on the very basics of preflop play?

Also, my approach - I've read Supersystem2 on 0/8, and the chapter in 'poker for dummies' (the only 08 sources I currently have) and have the Ray Zee book on split poker and the Tenner/Kreiger book in the post - any other books you'd recommend for a total noob?

I will also be putting in a few thousand hands at the microlimits to get some O8 card sense.

Am I doing the right thing here?


tnx

[Ironman]

Raising is more of a "positional" situation preflop.

I will raise a good hand in the hijack seat or on the button.

Read everything Buzz has ever written. You will do fine.

Dave

[diebitter]

tnx. Already found gold searching out Buzz.

[dcasper70]

I'll keep posting this link for beginners:

Hutchison Point Count System (http://www.homestead.com/ehutchison/OmahaSystem.html)

Some of the more advanced players here don't like this system, since it doesn't do anything for post-flop play, position, image, reads, etc. But for a complete newbie to O8, I think it offers a great foundation to one of the biggest hurdles: playing better hands preflop, compared to your noob opponents.

I say use it for 2-4 weeks, so you can better recognize more profitable hands, while losing less money while you learn.

Consider it good training wheels.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
but the advice seems conflicting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Diebitter - Yep. Even advice given by established poker authors is sometimes conflicting. And some advice you'll read will work well for you and some won't.

I used to read advice given by Mike Cappelletti, then go out and try to apply it - and take a bath, losing hundreds of dollars in the process. Meanwhile others were swearing by his words of wisdom. But you have to make it work for you, to fit your style and apply it correctly. (I am able to effectively apply some of Mike's advice).

Sometimes it takes a deft touch, perhaps a touch the author instinctively has. I remember following Steve Badger's advice about playing A4XY hands. As I recall, he advocated raising before the flop with them (so as to knock out 23XY hands and other A4XY hands) - and I tried that. Boy, oh boy, was that ever expensive! I got killed trying that. It simply didn't work at all for me. Nobody with a 23XY budged - and worse, there were all those A2XY and A3XY hands (that also didn't budge) to also contend with.

But Steve's advice wasn't really bad advice. I just applied it stupidly and clumsily. Following advice often depends on how well you play and on how your opponents are playing. Some advice works better against some opponents or groups of opponents than others.

[ QUOTE ]
To me the nature of 08 seems to me to be clearly a non-raising game preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends. Usually that's true in a ring game. In a tournament there are other considerations and often it's right to come in with a raise. In a tournament there are some occasions where you play with a raise or not at all, but that's less true in a ring game.

I think you use pre-flop raises in Omaha-8 more to manipulate your opponents than to get value for your premium starting hands. The problem is you often actually get less out of a nice starting hand by pre-flop raising with it. Depends.

[ QUOTE ]
or if you can specifically recommend what starting hands are raising hands in early/middle/late.

[/ QUOTE ]

No such thing, in my humble opinion. Simple logic holds that you should raise from early position with hands (like AAXYn) that play better against a small field and raise from late position with good starting hands (like A234s) in games where most players tend to limp to see the flop cheaply but then usually fold to a bet after the flop. But maybe you don't want to raise from early position with A234. (Your opponents will generally call the raise after they've already limped for one bet, whereas they might fold to a double bet). But if you play that way against experienced opponents, it's almost like playing with your own cards turned face up. Big disadvantage on later betting rounds.

However, if you're playing against non-observant idiots at micro limits (or non-observant idiots at higher limits), maybe it's not a bad idea to follow that simple logic.

[ QUOTE ]
Am I being too dopey here, or do you think I've got a reasonable newbie handle on the very basics of preflop play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems reasonable. Try it and see. But never gamble for more than you feel comfortable losing.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[gergery]

try this
www.o8poker.com (http://www.o8poker.com)