Live 1/2 NL AKo Dmacm disagrees wholeheartedly

[meleader2]

stacks:

me: ~$130
villains: all of them have me covered...


preflop:

i'm on the BB with AKo, UTG - SB (except for MP+1, MP+2) limp for 2$ (total 8 people in the pot if i check...).

it's on me and i make it 25$ to go.

here's the disagreement:


Dmacm doesn't expect me to be called. The standard bet was 10-15$. I had a TA image, but the point is not whether or not i would get callers. the point is whether or not that if i know that if i had bet 15$, i would have had a 5-way pot...by making it 25$ i'm expecting to either:

a) take it down pre
b) get HU
c) UTG pushes with only better hands (AA-KK) and i lay it down.


so am i better off betting 25$ and taking it down 50% of the time, getting HU the other 45%, getting put to the test of an all in the other 5%,
...or betting 15$ and getting 5-way pots 100% of the time, and why?

[Allinlife]

25$ is superior w/o doubt. you never want many callers on your pfr when you are OOP..you basically have to check-fold unless you flop a lock in most cases if you get multiple callers.

[handsome]

AKo is not the best hand in big bet poker, especially in bad position, but it's also not so bad that you should check. I think we both agree on this.

Since you're playing poker for money, your obvious goal should be to get weaker players to donate to you, so raising so much that you only steal the $2 limps isn't optimal. However, I understand your P.O.V. where you raise a "decent" amount only to be called by the rest of the table relying on implied odds.

So I think it really depends on the game texture. Figure out what bet size scares away your opponents but still try to get heads up with one.

[kongo_totte]

If you are gonna raise, a big raise is the right way to go. My standard play in this situation is checking though.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are gonna raise, a big raise is the right way to go. My standard play in this situation is checking though.

[/ QUOTE ]


i find that incredibly weak. what if your A flops? pot it and hope u don't get raised? i know it'd be easy to throw away against a rock like Dmacm, however, what if one of the LAG's puts it in.

[ryanghall]

I like your play here. Only problem is that you're not getting away if you hit an A or K.

Ahh, I hate playing live.

Ryan

[jacknine]

If I´d check this hand, and an A or K hit on the flop, I think this hand would be pretty troublesome. With all the limping - there´s a more than fair chance of someone holding AXs or even KXs for 2 pair, or a med pair for a set ...
Being out of position I wouldn´t dare to bet, and would probably have to give up to any bet because it would be really tricky to put them on a hand.

I like the big raise.

[kongo_totte]

My standard play is to check. If I hit TPTK, I carry on with extreme caution.

[Ghazban]

Raise is fine; limping is fine, too. If you're going to raise, you want to raise an amount that makes the hand easiest to play. By making it $25, you have $105 left and will have at least $50 in the pot on the flop, which leaves you in a lousy position if you miss as you can't really bet and fold to a raise (I suppose you could bet $25 and fold to an all-in raise; in live games pot-sized-bets aren't often necessary to get people to fold as they often see bets in absolute instead of relative sizes).

A smaller raise is not bad if you are comfortable playing a raise pot out of position vs. several players. If you make it $15 and several people call, you have an easy c/r all-in on an A- or K-high flop and an easy check/fold if you totally whiff. If somebody outflops you, oh well, reload and move on.

If you limp and flop TPTK, you're probably good despite the large number of other players. This doesn't mean you need to get your remaining $128 into a $16 pot or anything, but, most of the time, one pair is the best hand on the flop even if 8 people see it. You will also probably get action (in the form of callers, not raisers) from lesser aces.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are gonna raise, a big raise is the right way to go. My standard play in this situation is checking though.

[/ QUOTE ]


i find that incredibly weak. what if your A flops? pot it and hope u don't get raised? i know it'd be easy to throw away against a rock like Dmacm, however, what if one of the LAG's puts it in.

[/ QUOTE ]

The advantage to checking is that you will lose more if you miss the flop and win more when you do hit it. If you miss the flop, you can simply check/fold and lose no money. If you hit it, your hand has enormous deceptive value and you will make money off of the weaker A's and K's. If an A or K flops, more likely with an A, you can check raise the flop and play it pretty aggressively. You stand to get action from weaker aces. You obviously have to be careful of Ax picking up 2 pair, but you always have to be careful of that.
I have also seen someone recommend check/calling on the flop then leading the turn, which is also an aggressive way to play it which I think is much better than leading out on the flop.

[NYCNative]

Why do we raise premium hands in NLHE? One reason we do it is to protect them by limiting the number of callers allowing us to remain a favorite rather than a cumulative dog. This also allows post-flop play to be simpler. It also defines your hand - and gives villain a chance to define his or hers, valuable information to have.

It seems to me that you took all of the above into consideration when you made your raise. As such, it's hard to fault the play unless we are to fault your reads and I, for one, will take your word on it since you were there and I was not.