Final Table Bubble Hand

[Double Eagle]

From tonite's Stars $109. We are on the final table bubble and hand for hand. There is one other micro-stack at the other table. With the fairly shallow stacks there has been a lot of min raising going on. My image should be rock solid as I have shown down AA twice and AK once in the last several orbits. This push is standard, correct?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t3000 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t2890)
Hero (t77333)
UTG (t53785)
MP (t28784)
Button (t8287)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to t6150</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t77333

Edited to add table texture info.

[archangel]

was this representative of the standard raise at this blind level? without any reads or any knowledge of the size of recent raises, this one smells like MP wants action. i understand that there are two smaller stacks at the table and he might be timid about raising all-in and getting himself busted before they do but the size of the raise seems fishy to me.

given your significant stack and your modest holding and the fact that MP might feel - correctly or incorrectly - pot committed, why not wait for a better spot to pick up chips?

[Matador225]

Could you explain why you would consider this the standard play? You might be completely right I am just curious about your logic and reasoning.

[Allinlife]

i love it..though it may depend on how villan's been playing thusfar. villan will have to let go of all but premium holdings.

As the other respondents have already stated, you are in a comfortable chip position, probably on the top 2 or 3 with 2 micro stacks. MP is in no imminent danger of busting. With 2 players that can send him to the rail still to act, the range of his raising hand could be anywhere from AA-88, AK - AT maybe even A9s none of which you can beat. It is an auto-muck IMO. Leave it to the other guys to play sheriff.

[woodguy]

Standard.

Especially with shorty SB and mircro on other table.

Regards,
Woodguy

[Bco1/75]

At first I thought "right on" but the initial raise 2x bb is fishy, looks like he wants action.

[ QUOTE ]
Standard.

Especially with shorty SB and mircro on other table.

Regards,


Woodguy

[/ QUOTE ]
Woodguy,

I am honestly lost as to why this is standard. Can you please elaborate? There must really be a lot for me to learn here. Thanks.

[SL__72]

Just because at this point (2 micro stacks on a bubble) MP will be playing super tight. He's probably folding this way more then then he needs to to make it profitable. Also its important that if he is called and loses he will still have a healthy stack.

You can correct me if I'm wrong though.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
At first I thought "right on" but the initial raise 2x bb is fishy, looks like he wants action.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I would want to know something about MP before making this push given the fishy raise size.

Default is to push though.

[Double Eagle]

[ QUOTE ]
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At first I thought "right on" but the initial raise 2x bb is fishy, looks like he wants action.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I would want to know something about MP before making this push given the fishy raise size.


[/ QUOTE ]

Villain's screen name was "Stealio"

[MrMoo]

MP1 can't call this without a monster. Depending on how much he wants to be at the final table and how much he wants the money, he may even fold AA. Next hand the BB will be forced all in and the SB will have 25% of his stack in. Following hand, the BB, if he folded last hand will now have more than half his stack in. Someone is going out soon. Even if MP1 calls, it won't kill the OP and the OP might just suck out.

umm there's absolutely no way he's folding aa there, and I can't think of anyone who would fold qq or above there

I don't know who you're playing with, but I've never played with anyone who would fold aa there

[woodguy]

The $$$ at the final table goes up substantially compared to 11th place money and it goes up every placement.

Often players will be tighter on the FT bubble than the ITM bubble.

When Fossilman won the WSOP, he entered the FT with a big stack. He accumulated over 1/2 of it on the FT bubble as everyone started playing very,very tight to get to the bigger money and Fossilman started raising a large% of his hands and re-raising and only had to show down 1 hand on the FT bubble while accumulating a ton of chips.

Another good example of this was MLG's last win in the Stars big weekend tourney. He essentially did the same thing, but he made a PF raise about 99% of the time and had a massive chip lead on most of the FT by the time they got down to 9.

With 2 very small stacks getting close to bust out the PFR is going to need a group 1 hand to call off his whole tourney here with better $$$ so close.

The Hero also has a big stack, so he can take a loss here and not have it cripple him or substantially change his ability to steal.

Hero also wants the rest of the table to know that if you come at me you are playing for you whole tournament, so it gets you more free rides in the blinds.

So while the raise looks "suspicious" I push here about 99% of the time and make him make a decision for his whole tourney when he is a lock for the FT.

If he calls and beats me that's ok, but never underestimate the power of putting someone to a decision here.

Regards,
Woodguy

[schwza]

i like the play.

this caught my eye though:

[ QUOTE ]
My image should be rock solid as I have shown down AA twice and AK once in the last several orbits.

[/ QUOTE ]

anyone who is influenced by that is making a big mistake. of course you're not going to fold your monsters. what matters is how you play marginal hands. if you steal 4 times and show down AA 3 times and 48o once you should be perceived as more aggro than someone who stole twice with no showdown.

but some will probably irrationally think you're solid b/c you happened to get some cards, so maybe that's why you included it.

[durron597]

Everything you said is true, but...

[ QUOTE ]
With 2 very small stacks getting close to bust out the PFR is going to need a group 1 hand to call off his whole tourney here with better $$$ so close.


[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm making any raise that isn't allin, I have a group 1 hand 100% of the time. And that fact is probably why I never make such a minraise anyway.

[archangel]

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm making any raise that isn't allin, I have a group 1 hand 100% of the time. And that fact is probably why I never make such a minraise anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

that was my reasoning. i'm probably overthinking but if MP is a reasonably good player (this late in the tourney, i don't think that's too large of an assumption w/o info to the contrary), he has to know that a big stack in the BB will eat a weakish bet like this all day, every day. a bet like this against a big stack BB has almost zero FE. so if he doesn't want a call, he obviously he raises all-in. so why didn't he?

[Double Eagle]

[ QUOTE ]

but some will probably irrationally think you're solid b/c you happened to get some cards, so maybe that's why you included it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, what I meant was that I had not been overly active and had shown down those monsters recently, so to the extent that Villain was paying attention he would certainly not see me as even borderline LAGgy.

[durron597]

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so why didn't he?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he's:

1) A donk
2) Trapping

You can't discount #1. And that's why I said in my other post I would have to have some sort of read on MP before coming over the top here.

[Double Eagle]

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If I'm making any raise that isn't allin, I have a group 1 hand 100% of the time. And that fact is probably why I never make such a minraise anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

My original post specified that the pre-flop min-raise was being used with regularity at this table as until an orbit or so prior the stacks were very shallow.

[durron597]

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If I'm making any raise that isn't allin, I have a group 1 hand 100% of the time. And that fact is probably why I never make such a minraise anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

My original post specified that the pre-flop min-raise was being used with regularity at this table as until an orbit or so prior the stacks were very shallow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then this is an obvious push...

[SossMan]

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If I'm making any raise that isn't allin, I have a group 1 hand 100% of the time. And that fact is probably why I never make such a minraise anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

My original post specified that the pre-flop min-raise was being used with regularity at this table as until an orbit or so prior the stacks were very shallow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then this is an obvious push...

[/ QUOTE ]

pretty standard push.

[archangel]

[ QUOTE ]
My original post specified that the pre-flop min-raise was being used with regularity at this table as until an orbit or so prior the stacks were very shallow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, this info wasn't in your original post when i first responded (see first response in this thread) ... in that case, I can understand the push.

[archangel]

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so why didn't he?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he's:

1) A donk
2) Trapping

You can't discount #1. And that's why I said in my other post I would have to have some sort of read on MP before coming over the top here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't completely discount #1 but, as you said, absent corroborating evidence, my default assumption would be #2.

(see my original post in this thread).

[Double Eagle]

Villain called time and then let his time bank tick off for a bit before folding.

[betgo]

Fine if you have a good read on MP. I generally just push with 10xBB, bubble or not. However, if I had a big pair, I might miniraise hoping a big stack would try to steal.

[Pat Southern]

Sorry for the hijack-
I agree with the push, but was wondering what everyone would do had the SB called. At first I thought it would make it an easier push for a few reasons: 1. you gain extra FE (on the sidepot chips) because MP will think "I'll get to see his cards anyways" 2. You may keep the bubble lasting longer if you get MP to fold, and can therefore exploit the bubble longer. However when you get him to fold you dont immediately gain 10k chips vs folding, you only gain 3k+equity in main pot, so the reward is lower. Anybody have thoughts on this?

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry for the hijack-
I agree with the push, but was wondering what everyone would do had the SB called. At first I thought it would make it an easier push for a few reasons: 1. you gain extra FE (on the sidepot chips) because MP will think "I'll get to see his cards anyways" 2. You may keep the bubble lasting longer if you get MP to fold, and can therefore exploit the bubble longer. However when you get him to fold you dont immediately gain 10k chips vs folding, you only gain 3k+equity in main pot, so the reward is lower. Anybody have thoughts on this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm more inclined to do it just so I have more bubble bursting time if I happen to lose