Medium SCs - do I under value them?

[pingu]

Hi all,

I'm pretty much a noob, been playing online for a few months, but I love the game and am determined to get better.

One major area that I think I might need improvement in is playing medium SCs (T9s & 98s). I get the theory that these boys love to be in unraised multiway pots, so calling on the button with 6 limpers is a no-brainer (in the LP LL games I play anyway).

However, I tend to muck 'em if I'm earlier than LMP or if I haven't got at least 3 limpers even on the button. Plus I almost never call two bets cold with these holdings. Is this too tight?

I ask because I've seen a number of 'miracle' flops go by recently (you know, folded to me with 98s UTG+2, I fold, everyone after me limps and the flop comes 6T7r) and am wondering if I am missing out.

All advice appreciated,
Steve.

[ZManODS]

"I ask because I've seen a number of 'miracle' flops go by recently (you know, folded to me with 98s UTG+2, I fold, everyone after me limps and the flop comes 6T7r) and am wondering if I am missing out."

That's exactly what they are, Miracle Flops, they dont happen that much so you a lot when you keep trying to play them out of posistion. In your example, UTG+2 its an easy fold. The problem with playing these kind of hands out of posistion is that you dont know for sure if there will be enought callers to give you the implied odds you need. Secondly, there is also a good chance someone could raise behind you and now you have to pay 2 bets to play a bad hand out of posistion. It is a lot better to just play these hand in LP (could be looser and play in LMP) when you know there are already enough people in and you are fairly sure that no one will raise behind you. Also, unless the flop hits you pretty good, you usually have to fold.

So to answer your question, No i dont think you are undervaluing them that much. They are playable hands, but the conditions have to be right.

[Jeffro]

These hands are very dependent on game conditions. Most of the time when I play live I can play these cards from any position, because there is usually at least six players to see just about every flop. Online I play 2,4 3,6 5,10 on Paradise and often find these don’t play very well due to the lack of players seeing each flop and the higher level of aggression. Actually online I am more likely to be raising with these holdings when folded to me in LMP and hoping to just take the blinds. You say you are a fairly new player and I think one of the best things you can do until your skills improve are stay away from the fairly low expected value hands. If you have five limpers toss those chips in, just be able to get away from these hands if the flop kind of hit you, because with that many callers it has likely hit somebody.

[pingu]

Jeffro,

One good thing about these starters is that I find them easy to walk away from if I flop middle or even top pair.

I'm looking for the str8 or flush draws of course, but if I hit top pair and there's little interest from others, I like to bet or raise (if it's one to me and not overcalled) to see where I'm at. I then usually drop if I get played back at or slow down and prepare to drop if cold-called.

Is this reasonable? And does having a backdoor flush possibility allow you to be much bolder or not really?

Cheers,
Steve.

PS I try to put _some_ variation in so as not to become too predictable

[LondonBroil]

Follow up question. Say your the cutoff/button with 910sooted and you have 5 or 6 limpers, should you raise for value here or just smooth call?

[RockLobster]

Follow up question. Say your the cutoff/button with 910sooted and you have 5 or 6 limpers, should you raise for value here or just smooth call?

I would call (not to be picky, but I wouldn't call it a smooth call since you're a dog). I'd love to hear if others feel this is worth a raise (other than as a variance play, I wouldn't do it).