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nicky g
04-09-2003, 05:40 AM
As in Afghanistan, the offices of al-Jazeera have again been blown up following criticism of their coverage, thisis time killing one of their correspondents. I find it hard to believe this is a coincidence. Many people here loathe al-Jazeera, but never the less isn't this a clear war crime? Thefeeble excuse that Iraqi (and previously Serb) TV is part of the regime's "command-and-control" network can hardly apply to a Qatari satellite network.

http://www.indexonline.org/news/20030408_iraq.shtml

Iraq: Media under attack

US-British forces turning
journalists into targets


The cavalier attitude of the US and Britain to the media's rights in time of war, especially where the media presents a contrary view to their own, has led once again to attacks on civilians, tragic loss of life, and has dramatically increased the risk to all journalists - now and in the future.
On the night of 7-8 April the media became targets of the US-British forces in Iraq. A week after the Iraqi authorities tried to stop him from broadcasting, the US effectively shut al-Jazeera Baghdad correspondent Tariq Ayub down for good, killing him in a missile strike on the station's studio in the city.

A US military spokeswoman has denied that al-Jazeera's TV studio in Baghdad was deliberately targeted. "We did not target al-Jazeera," Major Rumi Nielson-Green told journalists in Qatar. "We only target legitimate military targets."

The station didn't believe her. "I will not be objective about this because we have been dragged into this conflict," al-Jazeera's visibly upset Baghdad correspondent Majed Abdel Hadi told viewers, as monitored by Reuters. "We were targeted because the Americans don't want the world to see the crimes they are committing against the Iraqi people."

The Pentagon has a record here. Hours before the US-backed Afghan Northern Alliance marched into Kabul on 12 November 2001, the US dropped a 500-pound bomb on al-Jazeera's studios in the city. Then as now al-Jazeera said the attack was deliberate; then as now the US denied intentionally targeting it.

Also, then as now, the US preceded its attack with criticism of its coverage. In October 2001, US Secretary of State Colin Powell asked the Emir of Qatar, who partly finances the station, to rein in the station's editorial line and cease its broadcasts of videos of Osama Bin Laden's speeches.

In March 2003, British and US officials criticised the station for broadcasting footage of captured US prisoners of war. US officials say the network is biased toward Iraq and allege that the station airs Iraqi propaganda to gain profitable exclusive footage - a charge the network denies.

In an effort to prevent US attacks al-Jazeera had provided the US forces with the coordinates of its Kabul office and did the same in Baghdad, plus the code of its signal to the satellite transponder - also without effect.

The missile shattered the building in the early hours of the morning. Abu Dhabi TV showed footage of a huge fire blazing from the Jazeera office. Jazeera correspondent Tayseer Alouni, known across the Arab world for his reports from the war in Afghanistan, was seen carrying the wounded Ayub into a car. A cameraman, Zuheir al-Iraqi, was hit in the neck by shrapnel in the blast.

The attacks on Iraqi TV the same night saw its transmitters in the Iraqi capital destroyed in an effort to further demoralise Saddam Hussein's remaining forces. Iraqi television and radio had up to that point continued to broadcast a steady stream of propaganda messages. After the attack it showed only old footage of crowds cheering Saddam and played patriotic music.

In fact it was a bad night for all the media. The Hotel Palestine, home to the international press corps, was accidentally hit by US fire. Reuter cameraman Taras Protsyuk, 35, later died of his wounds. Three other Reuter staff and a Spanish cameraman were also wounded.

The night of violence marked the culmination of weeks of US and British public criticism of al-Jazeera in general and Iraqi TV in particular. Despite the very clear opinion of international legal experts that the stations were protected civilian facilities and could not be legitimately targeted, attacks on both were seen as almost inevitable.

When Iraqi TV in Baghdad was hit by a US missile strike on 25 March, the attack was strongly criticised by press and human rights groups. Amnesty International warned the next day that the attack may have been a "war crime". Bombing a television station "simply because it is being used for the purposes of propaganda" is illegal under international humanitarian law. "The onus," said Amnesty, is on "coalition forces" to prove "the military use of the TV station and, if that is indeed the case, to show that the attack took into account the risk to civilian lives."

In reply British defence secretary Geoff Hoon said that Iraqi state television was part of Saddam Hussein's control, command and communications network.

Human Rights Watch argued that even if that were true, "the principle of proportionality in attack must be scrupulously respected. "This means that planners and military commanders should verify at all times that the risks involved to the civilian population in undertaking such attacks do not outweigh the perceived military benefit.

"Special precautions should be taken in relation to buildings located in urban areas. Advance warning of an attack must be given whenever possible."

"Television stations are not directly targeted in that sense," Hoon told the BBC, (but) "they are part of the military command and control structures and certainly they are dealt with as other parts of the communications system that allows the military to operate in and around Baghdad are similarly dealt with."

During the bombing of Kosovo in 1999, NATO destroyed the headquarters of Serbian TV in Belgrade (RTS), citing the same defence. That attack, along with the bombing of the Taleban-run Afghan radio at the outset of the war in Afghanistan, drew similar charges that such attacks were war crimes.

The IFJ and Reporters Sans Frontiers warned at the time that the RTS attack would set a dangerous precedent for assaults on press freedom, notes Matt Robinson in an article for EPN, citing Israeli attacks on Palestinian media since then and the Indo-Pakistan conflict where media installations on both sides were hit.

Since Kosovo, the US and British military have consistently pushed at the limits of international law by lethally striking at civilian media that they allege y has a dual military role - but which also transmits a message that counters the US-British official line.

When their permanent censorship by cruise missile is preceded by loud objections to their output, it's small wonder that the denials of the military and the diplomats are being disbelieved.

Commenting on the 25 March attack on Iraqi TV International Federation of Journalists general secretary Aidan White told Reuters that "once again, we see military and political commanders from the democratic world targeting a television network simply because they don't like the message it gives out."

And as the US media monitoring groups Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) point out, much of the US media has shown scant concern for the rights of their opposition numbers. It noted that some US reporters "expressed satisfaction" after the 25 March attack.

It cites, among several, New York Times reporter Michael Gordon's appearance on CNN to endorse the attack: "I think the television, based on what I've seen of Iraqi television, with Saddam Hussein presenting propaganda to his people and showing off the Apache helicopter and claiming a farmer shot it down and trying to persuade his own public that he was really in charge, when we're trying to send the exact opposite message, I think, was an appropriate target."

As FAIR point out, "Given such attitudes, perhaps it's not surprising that discussions of the legality of attacking Iraqi TV have been rare in U.S. mainstream media.

"Yet when the White House accused Iraq of violating the Geneva Conventions by airing footage of American POWs, media were eager to engage the subject of international law. It's a shame US media haven't held the US government to the same standards."

The deliberate blurring of the lines dividing journalists from combatants by US and British forces in Iraq sets a dangerous example to other states - not least Iraq, whose treatment of western media was condemned as "scandalous, contemptuous and hostile" by Reporters sans Frontieres general secretary Robert Menard last month.

The cavalier attitude of the US and Britain to the media's rights in time of war, has, by making one group of journalists targets, dramatically increased the risk to all journalists - now and in the future.

Glenn
04-09-2003, 08:21 AM
Those are serious charges that virtually no one at this point can responsibly make. It is so pathethic how lightly activist types can go around calling people murders and such while they are sitting and home NOT being fired at. Whether you are pro war or anti war, you must realize that if you go and stand in the middle of a war, there is a reasonable chance that you will get killed. Common sense must not apply however, when scadalous stories of conspriacy and murder can be levied to support the cause of the day. Sure, it is worth investigating and sure it is important to be vigilant. But this is not investigating, it is accusing. I take great offense to that. I am American. I am not a big pro-goverment guy, but I know other Americans and I know soliders. You are making very heavy accusations against these people. It is easy to do this anonymously from your rocking chair at home. It furthers your cause right? Most people who say and write this stuff don't even really believe it. They just want their cause to benefit from the backlash of the sensational story of the day. Never would they consider that these journalists are standing in the middle of a war on purpose. Then they are surprised when they get killed? A war crime? Probably not, but Darwinism either way. Never would they consider that the journalists in Baghdad are speaking at gunpoint from their Iraqi minders. Unless you were in that tank, I suggest that your accusations are irresponsible at best.

nicky g
04-09-2003, 09:15 AM
The al-Jazeera buildings in both cases were hit by guided missiles, not tank fire. They had given their coordinates to US forces, who knew exactly where they were.

"Unless you were in that tank, I suggest that your accusations are irresponsible at best. "

As I said, it wasn't a tank. But regardless, if you take that attitude you allow soldiers to do what ever they please, and make them accountable to only themselves. What about the journalists who say they were deliberately targeted by forces who knew they posed no threats, and whoinsist there were no Iraqi forces in the vicinity? Doesn't their perspective count? Are they being irresponsible?

Glenn
04-09-2003, 09:37 AM
"As I said, it wasn't a tank"

I apologize, change it to "on the battlefied". I was talking about the Palestine hotel where similar claims were made.

"What about the journalists who say they were deliberately targeted by forces who knew they posed no threats, and whoinsist there were no Iraqi forces in the vicinity? Doesn't their perspective count? Are they being irresponsible? "

1. They are speaking at gunpoint from Iraqi forces.
2. How would they know if they were deliberatly targeted? Knowing that something blew up near you is significantly different than knowing you were deliberately targreted.
3. It is hard for me to trust the judgement of someone who says they were "surprised" that he is not safe in the middle of a war zone.

No one knows what happened yet, but people are quick to use this "atrocity" at propaganda. This imediate response armchair quarterbacking is a bunch of crap. No one will know what really happened anywhere until the war is over.

nicky g
04-09-2003, 10:06 AM
"No one will know what really happened anywhere until the war is over.
"

You're right. It looks deliberate to me but none of us can say for sure. That said, they've yet to come up with much of an explanation for what happened.

Graham
04-09-2003, 10:30 AM
Further to this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,932809,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,932707,00.html

Central command claimed troops were being fired upon from the buildings, before firing back, while two British reporters - for Sky and the BBC - claim no firing occurred before the Palestine Hotel was attacked by coalition fire.
Like I heard someone say before - this one hasn't passed the smell test yet.

G

nicky g
04-09-2003, 10:40 AM
From the first link you posted:

"During the Afghan war, two supposedly smart US bombs hit the Reuters office in Kabul and many suspect the attack was no accident. It happened at a strategic moment, two hours before the Northern Alliance took over the city."

Dr Wogga
04-09-2003, 10:40 AM
...ever. As bin laden's slimy mouthpiece al jazeera is as much in bed with our enemy as the rest of the phony arab world

nicky g
04-09-2003, 10:42 AM
Is that you, Dick?

Ray Zee
04-09-2003, 11:46 AM
if anyone purposely attacked news media then it should be a war crime.

the big however, is when that news center is in the middle of the battle zone. then its hard not to include it in attacks if it is even only remotely used for the ememies purposes.

also if the media is using its power in a way that compromises your efforts to win or risks your troops with its coveraqe. also if it gives aid or comfort to the enemy it becomes the enemy, as its no longer an impartial view.

nicky g
04-09-2003, 12:20 PM
There's nothing in the Geneva convention about being allowed to kill impartial reporters. The enemy at all times is suppoesed to be enemy soldiers, not civilians, of any kind, who may (and in this case clearly didn't) or may not support the enemy. I appreciate that being in Baghdad increases your chances of getting hurt, but when TV stations are being hit by guided weapons, or gunfire in the case of Abu Dhabi TV, despite clear warnings as to where they're situated, you have to wonder. Arguing that they shouldn't be there is absurd; you might as well argue that the people who live in the cities shouldn't be there.

Jimbo
04-09-2003, 02:31 PM
nicky g, come down off that cloud of yours. The people in the city live there, the reporters chose to be there fully aware they might become casualties. To argue they are similar is the absurd part of this thread.

MMMMMM
04-09-2003, 02:44 PM
"In fact it was a bad night for all the media. The Hotel Palestine, home to the international press corps, was accidentally hit by US fire. Reuter cameraman Taras Protsyuk, 35, later died of his wounds. Three other Reuter staff and a Spanish cameraman were also wounded."

So it appears that accidents can happen. Was the al-Jazeera incident an accident too? Maybe we'll never know...but the critics certainly seem to have their minds made up that it wasn't.

nicky g
04-09-2003, 02:59 PM
There's no reason for reporters sitting in their office or their hotel to be any more at risk than the civilians living their.

Jimbo
04-09-2003, 04:26 PM
"There's no reason for reporters sitting in their office or their hotel to be any more at risk than the civilians living their."

This is a completely different statement with which I agree. The difference being that you implied previously that you believe the journalists were targeted because they were journalists (or for what they reported) and I do not believe this to be true.

Graham
04-10-2003, 11:17 AM
M,

I'm not sure where you got that quote from, but central command doesn't seem to think they fired accidentally...

From my first link above (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,932809,00.html)

"Reuters cameraman Taras Protsyuk, 35, was killed when an American tank fired a shell directly at the Reuters suite on the 15th floor at the Palestine hotel, where many journalists are staying."

snip...

"American forces also opened fire on the offices of Abu Dhabi television, whose identity is spelled out in large blue letters on the roof.
All the journalists were killed and injured in daylight at locations known to the Pentagon as media sites."

snip...

"Central command in Qatar said its troops had been responding in self-defence to enemy fire but witnesses dismissed that claim as false. According to a central command statement, "commanders on the ground reported that coalition forces received significant enemy fire from the hotel and consistent with the inherent right of self-defence, coalition forces returned fire".

The statement added: "Sadly a Reuters and Tele 5 journalist were killed in this exchange. These tragic incidents appear to be the latest example of the Iraqi regime's continued strategy of using civilian facilities for military purposes."

But journalists in the hotel insisted there had been no Iraqi fire.

Sky's correspondent, David Chater, said: "I never heard a single shot coming from the area around here, certainly not from the hotel," he said.

BBC correspondent Rageh Omaar added that none of the other journalists in the hotel had heard any sniper fire.

Chater said he saw a US tank pointing its gun at the hotel and turned away just before the blast. "I noticed one of the tanks had its barrel pointed up at the building. We went inside and there was an almighty crash. That tank shell, if it was an American tank shell, was aimed directly at this hotel and directly at journalists. This wasn't an accident. It seems to be a very accurate shot."

Geert Linnebank, Reuters editor-in-chief, said the incident "raises questions about the judgment of the advancing US troops who have known all along that this hotel is the main base for almost all foreign journalists in Baghdad"."

MMMMMM
04-10-2003, 11:57 AM
Graham,

I got that quote from the article nickyg posted in this thread! See paragraph 10 of that article, in nicky's initial post.

Parmenides
04-10-2003, 05:27 PM
Hey Kapo,
Did you know that the Bush family has a long history of doing business with the Bin Laden family? The Carlyle group stopped officially doing biz with them in Nov/01.

Did you know that Prescott Bush was president of a corporation that funded the Theissen clan in Nazi Germany? Did you know that the company in question had assests seized under the trading with the enemy act in 1943?

You support many National Socialists in your posts.

Dr Wogga
04-10-2003, 11:11 PM
....do you realize the guy you can't stand just won a war and liberated an oppressed people and all you liberal anti-USA clowns can do is call names and dig up minutia. Keep parsing words, oh intellectuals of the left, and continue to be on the wrong side of just about every issue. Yeah those inspections sure were working. Yeah the UN really has it together: see Kosovo, Haiti and one or two other UN failures. Keep appeasing the tyrants - always on the side of the perps you lefties, never the victims. Now repeat after me: "I was wrong. Bush was right. Bush had a better solution than my "Coalition of the Spineless" did.
Now don't you feel better? Just a simple "Thanks you Dr Wogga" will suffice. No money or accoloades for being on the right side yet again. Just some thanks. Oh silly me! Liberals never apologize when they are wrong. Sorry, I was beginning to think such a "free thinker" as yourself might admit to being wrong - and then I woke up........

Parmenides
04-11-2003, 03:13 AM
Hey Kapo,
Did you also know that both Bin Laden and Saddam were funded and worked for G.H.W.Bush. Rumsfeld kissed Saddam's ass in the 80's. If you want to know who is responsible for 9-11 then look no further than the Bush family. They have a long history of lying to the American people, and profiting from those lies.

I don't think that you have the intelligence to ask hard questions, nor to do any independent research or thinking.
You have been indoctrinated by the New World Order.