What should I try to notice/make notes on

[Buccaneer]

I played live in four tourneys at a poker league this week. I got 3 thirds and one first. Thank you 2+2!

Two things impressed me about live play. One was the amount of time you get to make decisions and two was the greater amount of information that you can pick up before the game and durring the game.

My question, if you have read this far, is just what is it best to notice about an INTERNET player. I try to pay attention to things like does he bet out at scare cards, does he raise preflop and then check the flop, etc. the problem is the game moves so fast time wise and new players coming in that I do not get the info that I know is there. I searched the archives and did not find much that I could use. If someone has a link or the time to explain what betting patterns to look for, what they may mean, and on what level do they mean something else. When do you "trust" a pattern?

2+2 books do not seem to cover this as it relates to internet poker. Thanks

[stuartharris]

I play exclusively at UB. The first time I click on a player's name to open the "notes" function, I paste this into it:

bad call:
def bb:
rel bb:
CR:
SP:
raise flop (g):
raise flop (b):
raise turn (g):
raise turn (b):
bluffs river:
raise river (g):
raise river (b):

I'm sure that I'm overlooking important factors, but this is working pretty well for me. I'm constantly checking the notes when I've got TPGK and get raised to see what this guy has raised with before. It's also easy to pick up on who consistently bluffs to try to pick up the river. If I record more than one bad call on the river, it makes it easy to bet out with marginal hands on the river. Finally, I'm amazed at how many people defend their blinds 60% of the time, then fold 60% of those before showdown.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
My question, if you have read this far, is just what is it best to notice about an INTERNET player. I try to pay attention to things like does he bet out at scare cards, does he raise preflop and then check the flop, etc. the problem is the game moves so fast time wise and new players coming in that I do not get the info that I know is there. I searched the archives and did not find much that I could use. If someone has a link or the time to explain what betting patterns to look for, what they may mean, and on what level do they mean something else. When do you "trust" a pattern?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know of any specific links to help you out with this sort of thing. I've developed a note-taking style for myself over the last couple years, but it's probably a little too verbose for a lot of players (I only one-table, so I have a bit more time for note taking).

When do you "trust" a pattern? That all depends on what sort of pattern you're looking at. If it's something like "bets flops in position", I would be more willing to raise/check-raise him with weaker holdings after seeing it about 4-5 times in a short span (say the first 30 hands or so). If it's something more specific like betting paired boards, I'd like to actually see his hand shown down at least twice. But something this specific can be inferred from some more general situations. For example, if villain bets a monotone flop and shows down garbage, I'm more inclined to believe he's betting garbage on a paired board.

There's a lot of "feel" and "experience" which goes into these reads. I would suggest starting off by understanding that you're not going to catch everything. Start by focusing on a single player (preferably the loosest one at the table, so you'll have plenty of information). Figure out where he usually folds? Is he giving up on the flop most often? Then he's probably fit-or-fold. Is he going to the turn and folding there? He's probably peeling with some pretty weak hands.

Once you get a feel for that, then start analyzing how to play back at him. If he's fit-or-fold, be more inclined to bet the flop. If he peels often on the flop, value bet your weaker mediocre holdings on the flop and turn (but not the river!).

Other things to watch for are flop and river bet-folds, turn check-raises, and preflop limps (with position in mind).

[trainslayer]

Hey, I like this. Could you clarify what some of these notations mean? It's been a long day, I've had a few beers now and I don't want to think hard enuf to figure it out for myself. /images/graemlins/grin.gif Thanks, Bob.

[ QUOTE ]

rel bb:
(g):
(b):


[/ QUOTE ]

[nomadtla]

[ QUOTE ]
bad call:
def bb:
rel bb:
CR:
SP:
raise flop (g):
raise flop (b):
raise turn (g):
raise turn (b):
bluffs river:
raise river (g):
raise river (b):

[/ QUOTE ]

I really like that, never thought of cutting and pasting in everyones notes, I'll probably change some of the categories as they pertain to my style but that's good stuff.

As for OP question: I look for a lot of the stuff listed here as well as
I look for what they raise/3 bet PF, do they bet draws on the flop, or BD draws improved on turn, do they adjust or playback to certain players and not to others (read: thinking player).

[stuartharris]

rel bb=releases big blind
g=good
b=bad or bluff

[WSOP Bound]

[ QUOTE ]
I play exclusively at UB. The first time I click on a player's name to open the "notes" function, I paste this into it:

bad call:
def bb:
rel bb:
CR:
SP:
raise flop (g):
raise flop (b):
raise turn (g):
raise turn (b):
bluffs river:
raise river (g):
raise river (b):

I'm sure that I'm overlooking important factors, but this is working pretty well for me. I'm constantly checking the notes when I've got TPGK and get raised to see what this guy has raised with before. It's also easy to pick up on who consistently bluffs to try to pick up the river. If I record more than one bad call on the river, it makes it easy to bet out with marginal hands on the river. Finally, I'm amazed at how many people defend their blinds 60% of the time, then fold 60% of those before showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been trying to work on pyaing more attention to my opponents. So often I am playing while posting here, working, reading a book, watching tv, etc... I've managed to eliminate most of that and now play poker only when I can focus on it solely, but have found myself very lost about what to look for. Overall, I really like this idea. When you are using this do you put the actual hands in or just keep a running count? Might you be able to show an example what you fill in.

Thanks!

[Dave G.]

I only take notes on plays that make me think "wow, that was weird/unexpected/retarded". If a guy with a 2% PFR raises with AA, I don't take a note. If he raises with A3o all of a sudden, he gets a whole paragraph. Here's a note I took on an NL25 player last week: Tight as hell PF. I raise with AA, he reraises. I call to see a flop and I checkraise all in. He calls with A3o UI.

Yea it's a bit verbose, but I'm a very fast typist so it doesn't bother me. I use stats to determine their basic style of play, and notes just complement any weird, out of character type plays that I've seen. Other simple notes like "can bluff at the river" or "calls down with ace high repeatedly. VALUE BET LOTS" are useful.

So my advice is to concentrate on the weird / unusual things you see when taking notes, but also take a note of bluffs you've seen and people who are happy to pay off your value bets.

[stuartharris]

In answer to your question, I'm specific sometimes and less specific others. Here's a guy who's pretty tight except for trying to steal on the river.

* = yes, this happened (a check mark if you will)
f = ultimately folds
wu = wins uncalled

bad call:
def bb: ff, Q7s, A3s, 44, f
rel bb: ***************
CR:
SP:
raise flop (g): wu
raise flop (b):
raise turn (g): AAA
raise turn (b):
bluff river: *, 55, f, 22, *, f
raise river (g):
raise river (b):