I think this is the first hand i have ever posted...

[FieryJustice]

Well, here is the deal...the big stack has been fairly patient, not doing anything too dumb. So..heres the hand.

#Game No : 2597108456
***** Hand History for Game 2597108456 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $5000 Buy-in + $300 Entry Fee Trny:15157584 Level:7 Blinds(150/300) - Thursday, August 25, 19:47:40 EDT 2005
Table Step Higher 5 #1033192 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 3: HoytCorkins5 ( $1725 )
Seat 4: Jcardshark ( $1950 )
Seat 8: Herodotus ( $4085 )
Seat 9: headcase49 ( $2240 )
Trny:15157584 Level:7
Blinds(150/300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Jcardshark [ Jd Qs ]
boozer105: hero is going to win
BrodieX: so they dont even get an entry to higher 1?
headcase49 folds.
HoytCorkins5 folds.
Jcardshark

[mlagoo]

His calling range, despite being the big stack, should still be very tight here. Also, as I understand it, four players left is ITM in these tournaments? In which case his calling range may have loosened up a little, but he certainly isn't looking to go from bigstack to among the shortstacks with anything but a premium hand.

I assume you've run this through ICM? I make this push regularly against opponents with what must be much lower calling standards, and I think it is profitable.

In other words, I guess I push. As you can imagine, however, I don't have a GREAT DEAL of experience playing $5,000 buyin SNGs.

[TheNoodleMan]

I was going to make a crack about someone with this many posts posting a hand for the first time, but that buy-in really put me in my place.

[Apathy]

this looks like a relativly basic push especially considering the payout structure, what am I not considering?

[johnnybeef]

honestly, there are very few people that know how players play at that level in order to give you a solid answer. I have absolutely no idea what the big stack thinks, what he thinks you think etc. as such it is totally impossible for me to put him on a calling range. furthermore, i think that there is a different payout structure there. that said, i push this in a 55 if that helps you out.

[FieryJustice]

fwiw, the payouts are like a normal sng, so we are on the bubble here.

[USCSigma1097]

I can do you EXACTLY what I'd do in this situation...

After luckboxing my way to this point in a tourney...I'd suddenly realize that I'd accidently bought into a 5000!!!! dollar tourney and was on the bubble.

I would then simlutaneously pass out while pissing myself when I realized I was making a 10,000 dollar decision.

Hope that helps,
Sigma

[rvg72]

I'm not used to playing these low buyin games /images/graemlins/crazy.gif but I've been able to effectively put people on call ranges based on a bunch of factors. I'm assuming here that he is a reasonably tight player and given the hand conditions put him at about 22% to call (believe it or not, I didn't pull this out of thin air). Top 22% = 33+,A3o+,A2s+,KJo+,KTs+,QJs.

Plug that into ICM and you get +0.1% to push which at least for me too close on the bubble.

The fact that this guy likely understands ICM and tightens up accordingly makes this a slightly better push.

Disclaimer: I have not played anything above $55...

rvg

[Newt_Buggs]

I don't see how the BS can be loose enough for this to be a bad push. Besides, if he does call he is either battling to get ITM or has just ended the bubble where he has a huge edge. Would you call with a hand like A3o in his spot when you can just fold and push any two the following hands?

Okay, gotta ask, did you win your way in or buy in?

I'm going to guess that you posted this because in the actual hand you pushed, got called, and busted 4th and are now second guessing yourself? If you did place 4th, that really sucks

Did you play this today? I saw you back at the $109s today, seems like it would be a big change for one day.

[FieryJustice]

Well, I bought in, so this was my gamboooollllll for the year. And yes...he called with AT and I lost like a bitch.

[FieryJustice]

..I also wanted to post this hand cause it makes me sad.

* Hand History for Game 2597363071 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $100 Buy-in + $9 Entry Fee Trny:15160385 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Thursday, August 25, 20:33:11 EDT 2005
Table Table 39823 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Shooter88811 ( $1090 )
Seat 2: nikkip2113 ( $1000 )
Seat 3: tilt1313 ( $925 )
Seat 4: colonostopy ( $1085 )
Seat 5: rexalot ( $985 )
Seat 6: makhar ( $1000 )
Seat 7: tirua ( $1000 )
Seat 8: FieryJustice ( $1000 )
Seat 9: phoshizzl3 ( $940 )
Seat 10: robwal77 ( $975 )
Trny:15160385 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to FieryJustice [ Kh Kc ]
tilt1313 folds.
colonostopy calls [15].
rexalot folds.
makhar folds.
tirua folds.
FieryJustice raises [80].
phoshizzl3 folds.
robwal77 folds.
>You have options at Table 12938 Table!.
>You have options at Table 12507 Table!.
Shooter88811 folds.
nikkip2113 folds.
colonostopy calls [65].
>You have options at Table 12938 Table!.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9d, 2d, 3s ]
>You have options at Table 12938 Table!.
colonostopy bets [150].
FieryJustice raises [400].
colonostopy is all-In [855]
FieryJustice is all-In [520]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7c ]
** Dealing River ** [ Jh ]
FieryJustice shows [ Kh, Kc ] a pair of kings.
colonostopy shows [ 8d, Th ] a straight, seven to jack.
colonostopy wins 85 chips from side pot #1 with a straight, seven to jack.
colonostopy wins 2025 chips from the main pot with a straight, seven to jack.
FieryJustice finished in tenth place.
FieryJustice has left the table.

[JJKillian]

Not a lot you can do here. But from my 109 exp for some reason there is always one complete nut that will bust out super early. You just ran into him.

I have changed my a/a and k/k play a lot lately if I get it early on. And depends where I get it. If I get either utg+1 or +2 I limp and hope for a raise then try to get it all in. If no raise, then it is just a pp, no set no bet. Other than that like to come in for at least 150 just to avoid the early on maniacs. Even then that doesn't keep them away. If any type of single or 3x raise will take it up to 250. If 100 or so in lvl 1 then I just push it. If a/a is there, then so be it.

JJ

[psyduck]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I bought in, so this was my gamboooollllll for the year. And yes...he called with AT and I lost like a bitch.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say... seriously, you usually play 109s and you decided to take a shot at a 5K SNG? WTF? Why not try a step 5 or something, not a step 5 x5.

As for this hand, I push it in a $55 or a $33. I assume you should be pushing this in a $5300 as well.

[Newt_Buggs]

thats impessive! Unless its been a REALLY bad day that tends to make me happy though. It renews my faith in the PP fish!

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]

I have changed my a/a and k/k play a lot lately if I get it early on. And depends where I get it. If I get either utg+1 or +2 I limp and hope for a raise then try to get it all in. If no raise, then it is just a pp, no set no bet. Other than that like to come in for at least 150 just to avoid the early on maniacs. Even then that doesn't keep them away. If any type of single or 3x raise will take it up to 250. If 100 or so in lvl 1 then I just push it. If a/a is there, then so be it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't play 109s, but at the 55s I can say this is a terrible way to play AA and KK all the time. I can imagine it's just as bad at the 109s.

[psyduck]

BTW fiery, his call is HORRIBLE. Why take an opportunity where you're a small favorite at best when you can keep the bubble alive as BIG STACK and steal as much as you want? In fact, if he loses, he becomes one of the 3 smaller stacks.

Just horrible play on his part.

[psyduck]

[ QUOTE ]
Not a lot you can do here. But from my 109 exp for some reason there is always one complete nut that will bust out super early. You just ran into him.

I have changed my a/a and k/k play a lot lately if I get it early on. And depends where I get it. If I get either utg+1 or +2 I limp and hope for a raise then try to get it all in. If no raise, then it is just a pp, no set no bet. Other than that like to come in for at least 150 just to avoid the early on maniacs. Even then that doesn't keep them away. If any type of single or 3x raise will take it up to 250. If 100 or so in lvl 1 then I just push it. If a/a is there, then so be it.

JJ

[/ QUOTE ]

This advice is horrible all around.

[JJKillian]

any examples or reasons, or just a flame? always up for more information

JJ

[JJKillian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not a lot you can do here. But from my 109 exp for some reason there is always one complete nut that will bust out super early. You just ran into him.

I have changed my a/a and k/k play a lot lately if I get it early on. And depends where I get it. If I get either utg+1 or +2 I limp and hope for a raise then try to get it all in. If no raise, then it is just a pp, no set no bet. Other than that like to come in for at least 150 just to avoid the early on maniacs. Even then that doesn't keep them away. If any type of single or 3x raise will take it up to 250. If 100 or so in lvl 1 then I just push it. If a/a is there, then so be it.

JJ

[/ QUOTE ]

This advice is horrible all around.

[/ QUOTE ]

once again I ask, examples or why? two negative responces on this so must be bad.

JJ

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
any examples or reasons, or just a flame? always up for more information

JJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to flame. I just think you are missing a lot of value by either limping (giving everyone essentially a free chance to outdraw you preflop), or overbetting preflop (to avoid bad beats from loose fish). When you limp, they don't make a mistake when their 33 or A5 outflops your KK. And, by raising to 150 or something, they will end up correctly folding. You want to induce mistakes from the bad players.

Seems like you have suffered some unfortunate bad beats, and you're letting that effect your strategy. There are times to slowplay AA-KK early (either not reraise or limp), but usually you need a solid reads and the proper table image and situation.

[psyduck]

[ QUOTE ]
any examples or reasons, or just a flame? always up for more information

JJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise 3x from any position. More if there are limpers. If there is a 3x raise, raise THAT raise 3x. Open-pushing and open-raising 10x or more is just stupid.

Poker is a game where you WANT people to make a mistake. If you raise 10x, there is less opportunity for your opponent to make a mistake. For example, most people would fold 87s to this raise, but not to a 3x raise.

Also, "no set, no bet" is idiotic, especially when you flop an overpair. Most of the time, your opponent will have just a pair on the flop. You want to stack your opponent if you have the opportunity.

Following your advice, you would lose the least if your AA/KK is cracked, but you also make the least when it holds up. This is pretty bad, since 80% of the time (an estimate, against lower pockets or JTs or something), AA and KK do hold up.

[psyduck]

Isura took the words out of my mouth.

[JJKillian]

I meant lvl 1 only, think I put that in. And yes I will avoid fish in lvl 1 by overbetting. And induce their dumb raises by limping utg or utg +1.

I don't give a lot of value if any to table image, especially 1st or 2nd hand of lvl 1. Unless your playing with the same people all the time, and even then don't always put a lot of value in it.

My early lvl (1-2) isn't distorted by beats, but it is distorted by a local pro friend of mine. He literrly auto folds all lvl 1 and 2 hands. Just clicks the box, gets up and gets coffee, watches TV whatever. I don't totally agree with it, and argue with him about it once in ahwile. But hard to argue his 8% roi at the 200's over a year period.

JJ

[Michael C.]

There's no way you have enough information to say villians call was terrible. Has Fiery been pushing a lot? If so I could definitely see myself calling here if I was pretty sure I was the favorite, and quite possibly a huge favorite (where do you get "small favorite at best?" Nobody ever pushes 98s from you from the small blind in your game? A5?). Also, how aggressive has villain been?　If he got his stack by bullying the table, it might not be quite as easy to just steal at will, as one of the medium stacks could make a stand soon with the blinds getting high. All things being equal, I agree folding is the best play. But I could see myself calling here in quite a few situations.