View Full Version : this is not good...
Kimpan
08-25-2005, 04:20 PM
this is such a typical hand for me... leaning on fold on turn.. but the straight-draw combined with the flush made me do it..
stats: 48/11.9/1.5 with a folded to blind steal of 0% after 67 hands..
how is it to steal with Q9o against this opponent?
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.
Flop: (4 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.
Turn: (4 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.
River: (6 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks.
Final Pot: 6 BB
baronzeus
08-25-2005, 04:25 PM
how can you fold the turn with a flush draw a straight draw and a possibly live Q or 9?
Kimpan
08-25-2005, 04:26 PM
I didn't because of these reasons..
BreakEvenPlayer
08-25-2005, 04:27 PM
you should fold Q9o PF against this guy.
me454555
08-25-2005, 04:29 PM
If he's not folding to your raise, why are you raising pf?
baronzeus
08-25-2005, 04:30 PM
Getting 7:1 on flop it's an easy flop call and getting 5:1 on the turn it's an easy turn call.
He's super aggro. He could raise you with a pretty good range here.
Kimpan
08-25-2005, 04:33 PM
because I have a hand better than average, and he calls everything.. I probably have the best hand.
einbert
08-25-2005, 04:35 PM
My estimate is that you have around 12 outs on the turn on average, giving you 26.7% equity. So folding the turn would have been a pretty hefty mistake, to the tune of something like -0.6 BB. I'm just saying folding the turn would have been really bad, it's not good that you almost did it.
The flop call is closer, but you have good implied odds on your gutshot and your Q outs and backdoor flush are frequently live.
Preflop is not exactly easy. I'm really not sure what to do preflop, but since this guy has a 0% folded BB to steal I am pretty inclined to just fold. Your hand has some quality, but you are out of position against an aggressive player, and that is generally very poor.
DMBFan23
08-25-2005, 04:36 PM
why not complete pf? you're unlikely to get raised unless he varies his play in these spots, and you should be getting pretty good implied odds since he's loose.
baronzeus
08-25-2005, 04:36 PM
My favorite preflop/flop line is complete/bet. This works like a charm almost all of the time /images/graemlins/smile.gif
BreakEvenPlayer
08-25-2005, 04:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
My favorite preflop/flop line is complete/bet. This works like a charm almost all of the time
[/ QUOTE ]
my favorite line against this is to raise anything above ten high against someone who just completes, then bet when they check to me. works like a charm almost every time.
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is not exactly easy. I'm really not sure what to do preflop, but since this guy has a 0% folded BB to steal I am pretty inclined to just fold. Your hand has some quality, but you are out of position against an aggressive player, and that is generally very poor.
[/ QUOTE ]
it makes me cringe to think about folding Q9 against a very poor player holding a random hand while getting 7:3 pot odds, even out of position.
I do see your point about raising, and I don't know exactly what to say to it, but I think folding is bad.
einbert
08-25-2005, 04:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
My favorite preflop/flop line is complete/bet. This works like a charm almost all of the time /images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Against this kind of guy, I don't like completing preflop unless I'm planning to reraise and I don't like donkbetting the flop because a guy like this is liable to autoraise your flop bet, or call it with the intention of betting the turn if you check. And they make hands too. In short, it really sucks to play against these guys OOP and I really don't mind just folding my hand before the flop.
baronzeus
08-25-2005, 04:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My favorite preflop/flop line is complete/bet. This works like a charm almost all of the time
[/ QUOTE ]
my favorite line against this is to raise anything above ten high against someone who just completes, then bet when they check to me. works like a charm almost every time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Right but you aren't loose passive.
Seriously, if I showed you the EV of this line you'd be surprised.
EDIT: I didn't realize he is so aggressive.
Kimpan
08-25-2005, 04:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
My favorite preflop/flop line is complete/bet. This works like a charm almost all of the time /images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
I though completing in SB was a big nono, but I guess it might be ok if he is really passive, is this correct?
einbert
08-25-2005, 04:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
it makes me cringe to think about folding Q9 against a very poor player holding a random hand while getting 7:3 pot odds, even out of position.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see how you inferred that he was a very poor player. His play might be poor before the flop, but nothing about this hand or his stats indicates that he plays poorly after the flop.
BreakEvenPlayer
08-25-2005, 04:41 PM
It's a play I will never ever make unless it's a 2/3 blind structure. Even then I think it's a poor play.
einbert
08-25-2005, 04:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Right but you aren't loose passive.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is 48/12/1.5 really loose-passive? In my mind that is pretty much classified as loose with average aggression preflop, and aggressive postflop. Not exactly the kind of player I want to play Q9o OOP against.
me454555
08-25-2005, 04:42 PM
Really? I think Q9o is about avg hand and he's getting 3:1 to call w/his hand and he's not more than a 3:1 underdog vs you. I don't think you have much of an equity edge here.
baronzeus
08-25-2005, 04:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Right but you aren't loose passive.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is 48/12/1.5 really loose-passive? In my mind that is pretty much classified as loose with average aggression preflop, and aggressive postflop. Not exactly the kind of player I want to play Q9o OOP against.
[/ QUOTE ]
I edited my post. Didn't realize how aggressive he was.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how you inferred that he was a very poor player. His play might be poor before the flop, but nothing about this hand or his stats indicates that he plays poorly after the flop.
[/ QUOTE ]
you can argue with the semantics but I don't think it changes my point.
Kimpan
08-25-2005, 04:52 PM
what is the conclusion here?
fold preflop basicly?
marching_on_together
08-25-2005, 04:58 PM
[/ QUOTE ]
Is 48/12/1.5 really loose-passive? In my mind that is pretty much classified as loose with average aggression preflop, and aggressive postflop. Not exactly the kind of player I want to play Q9o OOP against.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a reasonable hand and whilst it's not the easiest one to play the guy isn't really that difficult an opponent to play this against.
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