Hand 22 anyone take Clarkmeister line on scary river [Archive]

View Full Version : Hand 22 anyone take Clarkmeister line on scary river

nomadtla

08-25-2005, 01:51 PM

- - - HAND 22 - - -

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
3 folds, MICROPOSTER raises, BB 3-bets, MICROPOSTER calls.

Flop: (6 SB) A /images/graemlins/heart.gif, T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MICROPOSTER checks, BB bets, MICROPOSTER calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
MICROPOSTER checks, BB bets, MICROPOSTER calls.

River: (6 BB) T /images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
MICROPOSTER checks, BB checks.

Final Pot: 6 BB

I know this is not a strict application of CT since it's not a 4 flush board. But the ck/c ck/c b/f line seems appropriate here unless BB will call down with anything. Am I seeing this as a good use of that WA/WB line or not.

08-25-2005, 01:57 PM

This is a good spot to bet the river... a pretty standard line with top pair Ace in a blind battle like this.

I just straight up chickened out. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Wetdog

08-25-2005, 02:04 PM

To me the 3-bet PF says "You aint stealing this one, I like my cards." He may have an ace, KQ, KJ, KT, QJ QT. I think a C/R on the flop makes this hand play differently. So I don't like the WA/WB line here.

Saint_D

08-25-2005, 02:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
- - - HAND 22 - - -

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
3 folds, MICROPOSTER raises, BB 3-bets, MICROPOSTER calls.

Flop: (6 SB) A /images/graemlins/heart.gif, T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MICROPOSTER checks

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone please explain this too me.

Why exactly are you checking here? I seriously don't get it. Are you checking the flop in order to pop a non heart on the turn? I could see that line.

Of course, you just call the turn too. So, I really don't get it. Do you think YHIG and he is agro enough to keep betting it for you? Do you think you are probably beat and you are just calling your pair of aces down?

Even with the 3 bet on flop from him, I would think we are ahead most of the time. AA beats us, but I could see him 3 bet all the way down to 66 easily. If he thinks you are trying to steal, he might pop you back with any 2 just to bloody your nose.

I am not doing well at all in 6 max. I have never played a limit this high. So when I say "someone please explain this too me." I mean it without sarcasm. This hand just makes no sense to me at all.

-D

aces_dad

08-25-2005, 02:13 PM

I'm not sure, it seems the c flop/turn is setting up hero for a c/r somewhere but he never did.

I do think he's ahead often enough here to bet somewhere, TP in a blind battle seems pretty strong to just call down.

nomadtla

08-25-2005, 02:20 PM

you gotta throw a bet in here somewhere and if you're worried about a bigger ace I think the river is the place for it since he's worried about that second ten. But as Saint D said, I don't play that high so you might have your reasons, I also haven't played much 6-max. But I think not throwing in at least one bet with TP against a blind defense is just weak-tight (and I am weak-tight so that's saying something)

detruncate

08-25-2005, 02:39 PM

I know you know... but you really need to pull the trigger on the river. You lose a lot of the value of the WA/WB line when you don't bet unless Villain is very aggressive (in which case you usually only lose some of the value unless he's also bad), or latgastic (in which case you probably find a raise somewhere). You can't let Villain check through his losers and bet his winners after allowing him to lose the least the whole way -- it's the win the most bit, and it's a pretty important thing to leave out. You can bet/call or bet/fold as you think appropriate vs this Villain, but you have to bet.

Entity

08-25-2005, 02:45 PM

Check/call, check/call, bet/call. Don't bet/fold.

Rob

ReptileHouse

08-25-2005, 02:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Check/call, check/call, bet/call. Don't bet/fold.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not bet/call on the flop? Top pair seems too strong a hand in this situation to play this passively.

aces_dad

08-25-2005, 03:01 PM

Entity's advocating a WA/WB line here and doesn't want villian to fold to the flop bet with a far worse hand than ours.

Entity

08-25-2005, 03:09 PM

car ramrod

08-25-2005, 03:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Someone please explain this too me.

Why exactly are you checking here? I seriously don't get it. Are you checking the flop in order to pop a non heart on the turn? I could see that line.

Of course, you just call the turn too. So, I really don't get it. Do you think YHIG and he is agro enough to keep betting it for you? Do you think you are probably beat and you are just calling your pair of aces down?

Even with the 3 bet on flop from him, I would think we are ahead most of the time. AA beats us, but I could see him 3 bet all the way down to 66 easily. If he thinks you are trying to steal, he might pop you back with any 2 just to bloody your nose.

I am not doing well at all in 6 max. I have never played a limit this high. So when I say "someone please explain this too me." I mean it without sarcasm. This hand just makes no sense to me at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically what we are trying to do here is get the most out of our hand when we are ahead, and lose the least when we are behind.

If villian has an A here, he has us WB, but if he has JJ or QQ or KK we are WA, so let him bet the flop and the turn, which he will likley do with any hand he 3 bets pf with.

If we lead the flop and get raised then what, he either just made us think we are behind with KK or QQ, or he has us beat with his AQ+. Getting raised either way is bad.

But we want to lead the river b/c, if he has QQ or KK, he may check thru thinking we are calling with a weak A. Also, it is harder for him to raise a river bet out of nowhere. So we usually just get called. Hence we win the most when ahead ,and lose the least when behind.

shant

08-25-2005, 03:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Check/call, check/call, bet/call. Don't bet/fold.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

detruncate

08-25-2005, 03:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Check/call, check/call, bet/call. Don't bet/fold.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not bet/call on the flop? Top pair seems too strong a hand in this situation to play this passively.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you get a lot of action from Villain you're usually behind and drawing very slim but can't fold TP. Conversely, there's a good chance he folds pre-showdown when you're ahead and show aggression.

Passive play isn't always a sign of timidity. Here it's about extracting the most when you're ahead and losing the least when you're behind. Aggression probably accomplishes the opposite.