how often do you do this?

[schwza]

33. don't remember reads on villain. about 15 hands in and i haven't put a chip in yet.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t733)
CO (t1410)
Button (t1589)
SB (t1076)
Hero (t775)
UTG (t400)
UTG+1 (t800)
MP1 (t1217)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t60) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t110</font>

[mlagoo]

very rarely.

for the most part because i just don't feel its necessary in these lower buyin SNGs to pick up pots like these. when you know (or at least, are reasonably sure) that you'll get paid off on a big hand at some point, i don't feel it necessary to get mixed up like this.

typically i'll do this when i've been card dead for too long at all 4 tables and i'm freakin bored. which isn't a good thing.

[downtown]

I almost never do that. I put it in the "just not worth it" category. I figure in that situation half the time it's checked to me and I min bet and pick it up, and half the time other guy bets and picks it up. Oh and half the time it's checked down. I always play at 150%!

[AbelM]

Never.

If i would want to make a move i would call and see what he does at the turn.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
Never.

If i would want to make a move i would call and see what he does at the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, if he checks the turn the pot is usually yours. If he makes another smallish bet, then I pop him.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Never.

If i would want to make a move i would call and see what he does at the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, if he checks the turn the pot is usually yours. If he makes another smallish bet, then I pop him.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you'd wait to see what he does and then bet/raise regardless? (not trying to be a dick, just clarifying).

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
33. don't remember reads on villain. about 15 hands in and i haven't put a chip in yet.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t733)
CO (t1410)
Button (t1589)
SB (t1076)
Hero (t775)
UTG (t400)
UTG+1 (t800)
MP1 (t1217)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t60) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t110</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

almost never...though, if you're gonna do it, you have to raise as much as you did, which is why I dont do it this early.

[durron597]

I do this fairly often, but I usually only fire one barrel. If the flop raise doesn't work I don't put another chip in UI.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
so you'd wait to see what he does and then bet/raise regardless? (not trying to be a dick, just clarifying).

[/ QUOTE ]

No problem, my first post was a bit hurried.

First, I should say that I don't think this is a great board to make a play on. There's a lot of ways he could have connected with that board and my be unwilling to release his hand, even if he's just drawing at this point.

When I want to make a play in a blind war, I typically just call on the flop and see what happens on the turn. Popping the turn appears to be a much stronger play than raising the flop. Lots of guys like to raise the flop here.

If he checks the turn, I bet and they usually give up and fold.

If he bets, I'll judge how serious the bet is and respond accordingly. On your board, if villian made a strong bet I'd say screw it and fold - that board is scary enough that he probably has a hand he's trying to protect. If the bet is another 30 or a bit more, then I'm ready to put him to the test and put in a pottish raise.

The one time I will raise a flop like this is when I:
a) know the SB will fire at a lot of pots
b) there's an A on the board. If you represent the ace and they don't have one, you usually get a fold.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
33. don't remember reads on villain. about 15 hands in and i haven't put a chip in yet.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t733)
CO (t1410)
Button (t1589)
SB (t1076)
Hero (t775)
UTG (t400)
UTG+1 (t800)
MP1 (t1217)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t60) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t110</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

I never do this, because it's not worth it, but I don't think you could pick a worse board to this on. There are a ton of draws that the villain won't fold. You can't really fire more than one bullet so you're going to be playing this hand like a bitch in position against a likely call. If he folds... well... whooptie doo.

[Ogre]

that is a horrible spot to make a play in the blinds

[beeyjay]

I feel like plays like this were really a revelation for me at some point. I used to always do this and then finally got it through my head that the chips in the middle are really pretty meaningless at this point. However losing a fair amount of chips is meaningful. In this position youre going to get so many spite calls I feel like because in blinds v blinds people just don't give you credit for a hand.

I agree with some of the other posters that to make a play here a call is often better. People seem to slow down a lot more to calls and then bets than to just a raise that looks like you're trying to steal. If you pop the flop hes gonna get it in his head for the remainder of the hand that you tried to steal it and check call you down with middle pair.

When all else fails I pretend I wasn't in the blind and think about what I would do with the hand. Clearly if this wasn't a blind v blind battle it would be an easy laydown and quite often I think that is the best play.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
There are a ton of draws that the villain won't fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This also means that there are a ton of draws for a T betting to be afraid of. It cuts both ways. I don't see any particular reason that we have to put SB on a flush draw or a straight draw.

In and of itself, this isn't a great spot. However, I don't think it's a terrible spot, and I think it's worth considering that some people will be less inclined to mess with your blinds later (even if it's in push and fold mode, I think some will just remember that you play back in the blinds and chill out a bit) if you try roughing them up like this early on. I admit this is giving a little too much credit, but also, it's fun to do this kind of thing and I think it will work often enough to be marginally crappy at worst.

[Notfunny1]

Okay, I agree with others that calling and deciding on the turn is probably right. But, I would also want to know how the SB played the hand that he won. Did he min-bet then also? Also I would like to know what turn cards are outs for you? Spades, Aces, Kings, Board pairing, Jacks? Of course you could just move in preflop when he completes to avoid all the hassle.

Not Funny

[AliasMrJones]

I usually start to get ideas in my head and then think, "Bah, it's only 30 chips. Take it."

After reading some of the responses, I like the call, bet to a check on the turn line if you're going to try a takeaway.