Flame on!

[AtticusFinch]

Please criticize.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t975)
CO (t1620)
Button (t635)
SB (t1415)
BB (t2000)
UTG (t1985)
Hero (t1370)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t30, Hero calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t150) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t100</font>, CO calls t100, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: (t380) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t300</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t900</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1580

[Scuba Chuck]

Just a question. What are your thoughs on the CO smooth call?

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]
Just a question. What are your thoughs on the CO smooth call?

[/ QUOTE ]

At the time I thought either the nut flush being slowplayed, another ace-plus-draw like mine, or perhaps middle pair and a draw at the nut flush. A set, two pair, or another ace without a draw all seem highly unlikely.

You played it wrongly and that cost you EV and the only reason you're playing is to get as much EV as possible, thus getting as much $$$ as possible. For humor's sake, he's the hand I was too embarassed to post here: Link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=3222258&amp;page=2&amp;view=c ollapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1)

This fold probably prevented me from having a 65% chance of doubling my highest payout ever (which is pathetically small), and there's exactly 0 logic behind it. You at least had an excuse.

Enjoy /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]
You played it wrongly

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain how.

[ QUOTE ]
and that cost you EV and the only reason you're playing is to get as much EV as possible, thus getting as much $$$ as possible.


[/ QUOTE ]

I believe we can take this as a given. No need to restate the obvious.

[ QUOTE ]

You at least had an excuse.

[/ QUOTE ]

The excuse being?

Sorry, I'm on very little sleep, and I'm playing while typing. I started to write a response when I discovered that I completely misread the hand. I think you played it great, provided you trust villain to not be tricky with the Kd here. On flop, villain's play suggests that he either thinks he needs to improve or is not worried about getting outdrawn. Turn raise seems to confirm the latter, so I think he must have a pretty high flush or AK with Kd. Alternative, of course, is that he played trickily and/or stupidly and got rewarded by your big laydown.

Sorry for stupidity.

[johnnybeef]

You butchered this one. Preflop, I think you need to define your hand. Go ahead and raise er on up. On the flop a coldcalled reraise = great strength. You are likely dead in the water so it is pointless to fire another shell into this one.

[bennies]

I am not worried about drawing to the second best flush, if a diamond hits I'll be cautious but happy.

This being said, I think slowing down on the turn is right. I would bet small or check.

If it's checked behind you've given a free river card to the weaker ace, but that's ok - only 3 outs for him.

If he bets/raises I'll call 200-250. If the flush doesn't hit I'll call a smaller river bet.

[Newt_Buggs]

what's the buyin?

I think that calling or raising pf would be fine here

I would raise more on the flop. You've got a very strong hand here and stand to get paid off by weaker hands.

I would check the turn with the way that you played it

and I'm too tired to go into any more detail, hopefully i'll remember to in the morning.

[Hornacek]

Am I the only one who doesn't think CO has nut flush? Limped preflop, could have been playing suited connectors. I think by your play, he assumed you wouldn't be playing nut flush this strongly. I put him on J /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. This hand makes his play seem logical. Mayyyybe KdJd, but I'm not as convinced about that.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just a question. What are your thoughs on the CO smooth call?

[/ QUOTE ]

At the time I thought either the nut flush being slowplayed, another ace-plus-draw like mine, or perhaps middle pair and a draw at the nut flush. A set, two pair, or another ace without a draw all seem highly unlikely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm not sure what the best line is, but I'm certain I would have checked the turn. With that massive bet, I'd push too, if I was the CO.

[Chaostracize]

Either way it's a fold. I agree with NewtBuggs. Raise more on flop, then check turn and see what villain does.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I'm on very little sleep, and I'm playing while typing. I started to write a response when I discovered that I completely misread the hand. I think you played it great, provided you trust villain to not be tricky with the Kd here. On flop, villain's play suggests that he either thinks he needs to improve or is not worried about getting outdrawn. Turn raise seems to confirm the latter, so I think he must have a pretty high flush or AK with Kd. Alternative, of course, is that he played trickily and/or stupidly and got rewarded by your big laydown.

Sorry for stupidity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think villain holds the AK (kd) here. It is much more likely that he has a set or made flush. He limped UTG so these are the kinds of hands that he is more likely to have. Suited connectors (diamonds). Small-medium pocket pairs-made a set. Or AJ, AT with d kickers.

Dont like the size of the turn bet. I bet less (edit-i like the check line too) and fold to his reraise...if I make your size bet, I might call cas I could be ahead here still and might have 9 outs if behind.

[gumpzilla]

You need to check the turn, I think. Bet-folding is about the worst line you can take here - I prefer any of check-folding, check-calling a smaller bet, bet-calling the push to this. You have a strong hand with outs to improve to the second nut flush. I'd like to see the river if possible. I think the best way to do this is to check and call a small bet. If a fourth diamond comes, I think check-calling any river bet is the way to go. I think the most likely holdings for CO are 99, 33 and maybe A9, so I wouldn't be too worried about the K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

[fnord_too]

I like checking the turn there against an unknown (and most knowns). One pair hand with a draw to the second nut flush, I like keeping the pot small. If you check and he pots it, it is a close decision, but if you check and he makes a small bet, you have an easy call and a playable river. In this scenario, you can go for a blocking bet if you think villain will bet big if checked to, but possibly as a bluff, or you can check call if you think villain will bet better hands small enough to entice a call but might make a big bluff with a busted draw or such. (Or check fold against someone who would never call with or bet a worse hand.)

Betting the turn here is just bad, since you have showdown value and a nice draw if you are behind. This is not a hand you want to get blown off of, and you don't have to worry too much about a free card, since it is unlikely to hurt you. (Worst hand to give a free card to is something like K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif, where villain has 13 outs, but realisticly he will have zero to 8 outs if you are ahead, with the average probably being arround 4.)

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm not sure what the best line is, but I'm certain I would have checked the turn. With that massive bet, I'd push too, if I was the CO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? It was just 3/4 of the pot.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

Really? It was just 3/4 of the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

3/4 pot on turn is generally pretty different from 3/4 pot on flop, because the absolute value of the bet is substantially larger, meaning that it's also bigger relative to the remaining stacks. Villain pushing becomes a more viable option when you're making the pot that big, which is what Scuba was getting at, I think. EDIT: It's also a very big bet if you're planning on folding to a reraise.

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]
Either way it's a fold. I agree with NewtBuggs. Raise more on flop, then check turn and see what villain does.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems like the most sensible line to me. I thought at the time that my flop bet was too small. So, I felt forced to bet the turn to get more info.

In retrospect, though, I think that even with my too-small flop bet I should have checked the turn.

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]
You butchered this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop, I think you need to define your hand. Go ahead and raise er on up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure I agree with this, though. I don't like raising with AQo that early, especially with a limp behind me.

[ QUOTE ]

On the flop a coldcalled reraise = great strength. You are likely dead in the water so it is pointless to fire another shell into this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

The initial bet was a minbet, and my raise was pretty small. On this board, that MIGHT be great strength, but it might also be a good draw.