Turn double gut

I blame multi-tabling. I really hate how I played the turn & river. I didn't know what to do about the turn. Was that a standard bet/call?

UTG is (31 hands) 29 0 30 af1.8

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP2 folds, CO folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks.

River: (5.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

[Nick C]

Well, that's a pretty crappy flop for you. Checking practically amounts to giving up (someone's probably going to bet), but I am tempted just to check-fold, versus three players. The flop is pretty coordinated in the limping zone. The king does at least give you something to represent, but still, I'm not happy.

Anyway, though, you bet and got called (and only in one place too, which is better than will sometimes happen). And now we're at the turn, which is pretty awkward, because unless UTG called you with a flush draw, he's probably ahead. (Most flopped straight draws just made at least a pair.) If he did call with a flush draw, he still might be ahead, at this point.

I think the check is fine. I just don't see very much folding equity here (at least not yet). I think UTG will very frequently bet, though. So, by checking, you're mainly avoiding a raise. You're also probably giving up whatever chance you might have had to buy the pot on the river, though. If a bet's good, I think its main value is setting up a river bluff. I'm not too optimistic about such a bluff, but maybe it's worth a shot? Ugh. I don't know. Tough spot.

All right, then, so why did UTG check the turn behind? He was hoping to avoid a checkraise and see the river cheaply, apparently. Or perhaps he was trapping, but with what? J8s?

I really kind of want to 3-bet the river, because UTG could just have JT or something. The thing is, though, he has been playing like he's drawing, and the most obvious draw just got there. There really aren't that many combos of reasonable flushes available, but all the same A /images/graemlins/club.gif x /images/graemlins/club.gif does seem quite possible here, it's hard to put UTG on any hand with much confidence, and I wouldn't want to face a cap.

So, right or wrong, I would probably bet-call the river too. If somehow I know UTG would bet, I think I might prefer a checkraise-call. I think I'd like three bets to go in on the river, but it's not easy to arrange that out of position, and I wouldn't want zero bets to go in, which I think is entirely possible if you check, on this scary board.

[JacksonTens]

This really looks like you got rivered, are you sure about the flop bet? I think there is alot of draws on this board and somones going to call, but hey I'd do that too.

Turn: Yeah, what can you do??

River: lead out, but I'm not sure about a 3bet, b/c but I don't like it. Tough gig

JT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[ReadyEddie]

Am i weak tight because i just call this from the SB?

I semi bluff this turn when you pick up that gut shot, i think UTG is capable of folding a flush draw at that point.

[PTjvs]

[ QUOTE ]
Am i weak tight because i just call this from the SB?

I semi bluff this turn when you pick up that gut shot, i think UTG is capable of folding a flush draw at that point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just call this from SB too. I don't think your equity here outweighs your awful position.

That said, UTG folding a flush draw on the turn is an absolute pipe dream. Pot is laying him like 7/1 to call, and people who don't care about pot odds never fold flush draws either. For that matter, it's almost never correct to fold a flush draw anyways.

jvs

[Mister Z]

I don't raise AJo from the SB because of the terrible position you'll have against two limpers. Maybe you felt obligated to bet the flop b/c of the PF raise, but betting into 3 opponents with Ace-high on a moderately coordinated board is a bad idea. I think a case could be made for 3-betting the river - just because he checked the turn doesn't mean he has two clubs.

[callmedonnie]

I play this hand the exact same way usually with the exception of the PF raise. I just complete there, unless all the limpers are so loose that I want them paying. I usually auto bet the flop but after reading some other replies, I am thinking that a check/fold isn't bad either.

I don't think a turn check is bad. It does take away the likelihood of a river bluff winning which brings me to my next point. I bet the river every time. While I don't to see villain's raise, your check on the turn might get him to suspect weakness. That card is a good bluffing opportunity for him. Also, double gutshots are very deceptive so you might actually have best hand. Bet/call the river seems fine to me.

I think J10 and 10 9 are possibilities for villain too.

[chief444]

I don't like the flop bet against 3 opponents.

After you bet the flop and it's HU and you picked up a nice draw and you might have the best hand and a 7 or 9 may fold you really should bet/call the turn.

The river seems OK. I don't think you can be sure enough by the turn check that he's on a club draw to check/call and he may raise a J here so you certainly can't fold.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
Am i weak tight because i just call this from the SB?


[/ QUOTE ]
No. I just complete as well.

UTG is NEVER folding a flush draw. But there are some better hands he may fold.