"Good" Lay-down?

[xGoreDudex]

Well, I've been struggling my last 3k hands. I feel I've definatley been running really cold, but at the same time, I know I'm leaking a bit. One of my "biggest" leaks is TPTK type hands where I play them ultra agressive, only to been shown a better hand, when my read was correct yet, I lacked the discipline to follow through.

So, I've been working on being more disciplined, here is a hand from tonight..

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, BB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

I believe my fold is quite justfied as many straights are out there. And villian came alive when the 6 landed on the river.

Weak-tight or just right?

[hemstock]

Weak-tight

[xGoreDudex]

[ QUOTE ]
Weak-tight

[/ QUOTE ]

why /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[closer2313]

What is your read of the player?

[xGoreDudex]

Standard...I haven't seen him go nuts with anything...that being said, I'm not sure what he see's in that six...either way, not a lot my lone A beats. If he does have the low straight in this situation, he's definatley not "standard", but not much I beat if the oppenet has a made hand.

[hemstock]

Well you have top pair with a great good kicker and you are risking 1 bet to win 10. The 6 is a bluff card and unless you are really really sure the guy has the straight you might consider folding. I think you shouldn't fold this river to the most passive player in the world.

[stretch22]

small stakes hold em page 202

"Even if you are almost sure that you are beaten, when the pot is large on the river, do not fold decent hands for one bet."

[Deamon2]

you don't have to be good often at this river to make a call profitable. the pot's laying 10-1, there's no way I'm folding

Nash Clown always raises.

[aK13]

Terrible.

[TomBrooks]

Against a normal player, your losing here the vast majority of the time. But getting 10:1, you probably should call it. You will be good about 10.61% of the time, so it is +EV to call.

[Donkey Kong]

What kind of hand did you put him on? Is he the kind of player who would play any ace on the BB even when raised? of course he might have the straight or even 2 pairs, but you're not beat more than 9 out of 10 times, so I in my opinion the laydown was just weak.

[bjarne]

Call. With 10:1 it's an OK call.

Although I'm not smiling when I click the call button.

-Edit- I'm working on the opposite leak. I'm trying to learn to call in big pots on the river even when it looks like I'm beat.

[Dave G.]

Awful fold. If BB happens to be a good player, he's just taken a note on you and is now going to make your life more difficult by bluffing at you.

You're getting 10.5:1. You almost certainly have the best hand if nobody has a 7. You will win this enough to justify it. Call and fold if MP2 raises behind you.

[WSOP Bound]

[ QUOTE ]
small stakes hold em page 202

"Even if you are almost sure that you are beaten, when the pot is large on the river, do not fold decent hands for one bet."

[/ QUOTE ]

[shermn27]

No doubt I am calling here. However, if you were last to act and BB came alive and the second player called, then you might consider a fold more often due the second player saying he has a hand that is at least call worthy. (But so do you /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[krimson]

I would call here, I think this is a perfect spot for someone to bluff. BB could have been drawing to a flush and missed, it doesn't look like anyone would have the 7 and the straight is pretty obvious and staring everyone in the face.

I think you have to call. You have a good hand in a decent sized pot. BB may indeed have a 7 in his hand, and thus a straight, but isn't there a pretty good chance that he did not hold a 7 when he called your PF raise??? I think so, thus I call.

[Jack of Arcades]

This isn't a good laydown, but everyone's ignoring the fact that you don't close the action. That's a pretty big point because if it gets raised behind you you just spent a bet without a showdown.

[TeeVeeDude]

I love players who make "good lay downs" on the river. They are very profitable... for ME.

[aces_dad]

Unfortunately he doesn't provide a read on MP2 either, but since he hasn't raised yet, you're more inclinded to think he'll overcall &gt; fold &gt; raise than raise.

[deception5]

Many players would bet any ace here because they don't want you checking behind and figure they're going to call a bet so they'd rather be the one to put it in. If you are making this fold routinely then your biggest leak is that you fold too much on the river for one bet.

[Cosimo]

[ QUOTE ]
-Edit- I'm working on the opposite leak. I'm trying to learn to call in big pots on the river even when it looks like I'm beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

That I have no problem with. It's when the scare card comes and two people wake up and there's a bet and a raise in front of me, and I have a strong but not monster hand. There've been a handful of times where I've folded two pair, trips, or the bitch straight to some aggro punk.

[deception5]

Here is the link I was looking for:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=micro&amp;Number=462860&amp;fpart= 1&amp;PHPSESSID=

[Deamon2]

that thread completely changed the way I looked at poker (for the better)

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
You will be good about 10.61% of the time, so it is +EV to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

My calculations put it closer to 10.62...

Where the hell did you come up with this number, Tom?

[SmileyPSU]

I think you should call this; You don't have to win here that often (which you won't) but getting 10:1 I think this is a profitable call.

Swear when you get beat, smile when you win. But make the call.

[JacksonTens]

If he is a standard player and he made his straight he's going to c/r you. Or am I giving him too much credit? Call it down and lose, you don't want those "creative players" taking shots at you.

JT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[deception5]

Just to add one more possible holding, a flush draw might make this play with a scary river card like this.