No-Berating Challenge Results

[DCWGaming]

Just as an update for those who didnt read the original thread. I was a regular berater. I thought there was a strong advantage that came from it, and I got so much flack from people on this boards that I gave it a week (15k hands) and didnt berate once.

And the results -

Advantages
1) Less typing time for berating means more typing time for AIM.
2) People dont hate me as much
3) Nobody blames me when the fish leave. The fish still leave, but I don't get blamed for it.

Disadvantages
1) I ran across very very many less crazy-aggro players than usual. Maybe a coincidence.
2) My Went to SD over the last 15k hands is 2 points lower. I dont know how much this stat varies...I assume not all that much. But it is a result of either people not calling me down as much, or me calling others down less. I am fairly sure the A-high calldowns were less frequent.
3) Didnt get to play donks heads-up. The HU matches are sporatic(sp?) at best anyway, but it is obvious that they will almost never happen when i'm not pissing someone off.

There are probably unseen differences from not berating. But whatever they were, I didnt know what to look for. Perhaps the less A high call downs was a good thing. Maybe my play style works better when people occasionally respect my bet instead of not believing anything I do. I'm not sure.


I still believe that berating at 5/10 and below is effective. I dont believe it is very effective above this level.

Despite my beliefs, I'm giving it up.

I do -eventually- want the respect of the 2+2 community, and being pro-berating at twoplustwo.com is like being pro-abortion in a catholic church. Despite the fact that there are positive points about each side, there are too many people with a closed ear. To those of you who approached the idea with an open mind - thanks.


Thx all,
DCW


Side note - If I do ever start berating again, it will be to spite all you jerk trolls out there who had nothing but insults to contribute even after I decided to give your side a shot. Get a life, trolls.

[Victor]

berating is -ev. it shouldnt be too hard to realize this. berating makes people try to play better against you. it also can make fish leave.

[DCWGaming]

[ QUOTE ]
berating is -ev. it shouldnt be too hard to realize this. berating makes people try to play better against you. it also can make fish leave.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've experienced both sides of the arguement fairly extensively. Have you?

Try to back up your claims please

I saw two hands earlier today that made me laugh. First hand guy with a weak ace flops two pair, and this other guy holding AK calls him down and catches a K on the river. Then, the weak ace guy starts berating him all during the next hand, gets called down by a guy with middle pair (in fact, this middle pair guy raises the river for no reason) and the berater flips over AA. Then he apologizes for berating and said he just wanted people to think he was steaming so he'd get more action on his aces.

[Victor]

i have berated and seen the results. i have also seen ppl berate and seen the results. i guess you gotta take my word for it. but think about how you would react to berating. i would think the natural inclination is to attempt to play better with regards to the harasser.

[spamuell]

Props for thinking something is +EV and still not doing it because you realise it makes you a douche.

[DCWGaming]

Trying to apply what you would do in the same situation as a fish will not give you reasonable results.

Someone tells you you're bad. You consider the situation, figure out why they'd say what they did, see if you misplayed the hand, and if you made a mistake - hopefully correct it. If this were the thought process of a fish, there would be none left.

I dont want to go into my theory of berating. But there is a large difference between "keep playing that trash" and "XXXX you donkey".

You need to at least consider the option that it is more effective than you give it credit for.

[gildwulf]

This is probably the lamest challenge I've ever seen on 2+2.

[DCWGaming]

[ QUOTE ]
This is probably the lamest challenge I've ever seen on 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Get a life, trolls.


[/ QUOTE ]

thx bye

[gildwulf]

First of all, this challenge is lame because you're calling it "my theory of berating". It's not a theory, and it's not yours.

Second, this challenge is lame because you're trying to make your conclusions sound scientific; except you make broad generalization from tens of thousands of players on how they act 'differently' from a ridiculously sample of 15K hands.

Finally, it is lame because your "theory" goes against plain common sense. For instance, if you write an essay for a class and you get it back with big red x marks where you messed up, and the prof's comments told you “STOP [censored] UP YOUR GRAMMAR DUMBASS!!!” would you get all angry and make more grammatical mistakes? If your coach yells at you that your play is wrong in a sports practice, do you play sh*ttier just to spite him?

As an example, my aces got cracked in a row twice yesterday by this VPIP 50+ table captain. He kept laughing at me and telling me I was on tilt, and I kept politely telling him that I wasn’t and he kept assuring me that I was. So I turned off the chatbox and forgot about it. In other words, you are wasting your time on this garbage when you should be learning how to play poker better.

[DCWGaming]

[ QUOTE ]
As an example, my aces got cracked in a row twice yesterday by this VPIP 50+ table captain. He kept laughing at me and telling me I was on tilt, and I kept politely telling him that I wasn’t and he kept assuring me that I was. So I turned off the chatbox and forgot about it. In other words, you are wasting your time on this garbage when you should be learning how to play poker better.

[/ QUOTE ]

You kept politely telling him you werent. So you want him to know that you are completely in control and know what you're doing? Why not let him think you're playing badly? I guess you like people to know you're on top of your game... Your logic is infallable.


[ QUOTE ]
Finally, it is lame because your "theory" goes against plain common sense. For instance, if you write an essay for a class and you get it back with big red x marks where you messed up, and the prof's comments told you “STOP [censored] UP YOUR GRAMMAR DUMBASS!!!” would you get all angry and make more grammatical mistakes? If your coach yells at you that your play is wrong in a sports practice, do you play sh*ttier just to spite him?

[/ QUOTE ]

A teacher-student relationship is in no way similar to an aggressive table-jerk and a fish. After I insult a fish and call him an idiot or what-have-you, he isnt trying to improve his play to get a good grade. He wants to beat me. Because he doesnt understand the game, he doesnt know that you cant gun for one person. So he'll hate me, not believe any move I make, call me down with worse hands, make more reckless moves, etc.

Think i'm wrong? I guarantee you i've berated for a much larger sample size than you, and know the results.

I've put forth the effort, and made a (most likely) permanent change.

Try to show some effort instead of plugging your ears and shouting the same arguements you've seen preached.

[Danenania]

Want a cookie?

[cmwck]

Christ, are we going to do this whole thread over again? Let DCWGaming type what he wants in his chatboxes. This is taking up space where we could be discussing dozens of different strategic issues that actually matter.

[ QUOTE ]
Try to show some effort instead of plugging your ears and shouting the same arguements you've seen preached.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a feeling you'll start berating people again eventually no matter how hard you try not to.

[DCWGaming]

Doesnt take much effort, believe it or not. Its as hard as it would be for you to start raising a new set of hands from the CO or something.

I'm taking offense to alot of the responses here because even though I changed the thing that caused so much contraversy, i'm still being flamed.

If you were insulted for using a tactic that you thought was profitable, stopped using the tactic, and got insulted anyway, i'm sure you wouldnt be all that happy either.

[wheelz]

You just love attention don't you.

Yeah I'm one of those trolls

[DCWGaming]

[ QUOTE ]
You just love attention don't you.

Yeah I'm one of those trolls

[/ QUOTE ]
You just cant contribute anything benificial can you?

Yes you are.

[wheelz]

I don't think anything beneficial can, or needs to be, contributed to this thread. You're not the only poker player who likes to berate people at the table, and we all already know doing it has a negative effect. You're not quite the pioneer you think you are.

Now hopefully this thread will disappear deep into the HUSH abyss.

[DCWGaming]

I never claimed to be a pioneer, and assuming I thought so is just further evidence that you are biased every time you respond to me.

IF nothing benificial can be contributed, why post and bump it up? GJ making it fall to the abyss.

[ QUOTE ]
If you were insulted for using a tactic that you thought was profitable, stopped using the tactic, and got insulted anyway, i'm sure you wouldnt be all that happy either.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I was using a tactic that I thought was profitable and got flamed for it, I would simply stop telling people that I was using that tactic and ignore anyone who disagreed with me. You knew exactly what the responses to this thread would be before you posted it. You started this thread because you wanted a flame war.

The only thing I have to say about this "challenge" is this: If being a decent human is a challenge for you, then you need help.

[DCWGaming]

So now i'm an indecent human being.

There really arent too many insults lower than that, but somehow this change (which you think is for the best) means I need help.

How about you try to keep things in perspective, k?

[ghostface]

[ QUOTE ]
Props for thinking something is +EV and still not doing it because you realise it makes you a douche.

[/ QUOTE ]

Theres something wrong with this. Do you see why?

[DCWGaming]

Nobody else bother responding. I wont be reading.

I didnt start this post to stir up trouble. I did it to swing my findings on a contraversial subject, and to announce a big step in my game. Just as someone would make a post about their first 15k hands of 10/20 or whatever.

As you can tell by my tone Ron, i'm not exactly delighted to see all of this negative feedback. Id rather the thread sink into oblivion than become a troll breeding ground.


no further replies will be read or replied to.

[gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]
I never claimed to be a pioneer

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont want to go into my theory of berating.

[/ QUOTE ]