Ace sooted [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Guthrie

08-24-2005, 02:38 PM

Consecutive hands on different tables. Early in session, I'd never seen any of the other players, so no reads.

Hand 1: I would have raised in CO, but just called here. I recall some discussion over whether to bet/raise the flop or check/call. Since there was still no interest on the turn I tried again. Now what? Sometimes you can just push them off, and sometimes you can't.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Cool$um checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, Cool$um calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Cool$um checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, MP2 calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Cool$um checks, MP2 checks, Hero ?.

Hand 2: Although I've been burned before by slowplaying the nut flush, I decided to take another shot at it here. It seems to have worked, allowing me to check/raise the turn. Try the c/r again on the river, or just value bet?

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 calls, 3 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, MP3 calls, Hero caps, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (16.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero ?

numeri

08-24-2005, 02:44 PM

Hand 1:

preflop: You might consider raising here.

flop: Fine.

turn: Marginal at best. You don't have the equity to bet for value, and you're not folding out both players with this blank. Take the free card.

river: No way you fold both out here. Check behind and move on to the next hand.

Hand 2:

preflop: Fine.

flop: I like the slow-play here, only because you have the nuts and the pot is not very big (6.5 SB).

turn: Fine.

river: You can't check-raise - you capped on the turn. It's a rare player who will be into you after you C/R and capped the turn. Just bet.

Fantam

08-24-2005, 03:08 PM

Hand 1:
Preflop and flop were fine.

You bet the flop because you will make your flush on average 1 in 3 times by the river, and you have at least 3 opponents. So you are contributing a smaller %age to the flop for each bet that goes in than the %age of times that you will make your nut flush.

You are not getting value for a bet on the turn, because you will now only make your nut flush on average 1 in 5 times. Also it is unlikely that all 3 of your opponents will fold to a bet, so checking the turn would probably be better.

Check behind on the river. Its unlikely that anyone with a worse hand will call your A high. But someone who was too passive to bet a small pair might call your bet.

Hand 2:
Bet the flop. Most players will expect you to be betting with just 1 /images/graemlins/spade.gif than a made flush. Slowplaying the flop will probably just cost you a few bets.

I would also have preferred to bet the turn, as checking risked the other players checking behind. MP3 may have been trying for a free card when he bet the flop.

Bet the river. MP2 and MP3 both seem to have something and will probably at least call. Again you risk the river being checked through if you dont bet.

numeri

08-24-2005, 03:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2:
Bet the flop. Most players will expect you to be betting with just 1 /images/graemlins/spade.gif than a made flush. Slowplaying the flop will probably just cost you a few bets.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a good point. I went too quickly and didn't notice that we were first to act. If you want to slowplay, do it after you bet and are raised. As Fantam mentioned, slowplaying the flop as you did probably just cost you bets. (Remember - we don't know how the turn will play out when we're on the flop.)

MaxPowerzz

08-24-2005, 03:32 PM

Hand 1: I play it the same and check through
Hand 2: Bet flop; bet river

Soul Daddy

08-24-2005, 03:56 PM

Hand 1, I probably raise pf, but I guess it's close. No way you're getting all of them to fold, and it's unlikely you're ahead, so there is no way you can bet the river. Turn, eh... I probably check behind, though I don't really mind the bet if you think one or two will drop.

Hand 2 is fine. There's really no question about the river is there? Bet.

VoraciousReader

08-24-2005, 04:16 PM

Hand 1: Check behind. I don't think you'll push anyone off a better hand, and I don't think you'll get called by any hands that you beat. Nice table, btw. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hand 2: I like the slowplay. There are very few cards that could come on the turn that would ruin your day. Of course, it looks like MP2 is coming along regardless, but without a read you couldn't know that.

Bet out the river. You'd hate for this to check through and you may have scared them on the turn.

turaho

08-24-2005, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: I like the slowplay. There are very few cards that could come on the turn that would ruin your day.

[/ QUOTE ]

While a card that pairs the board may make you a little queasy (but shouldn't have you too worried), you do have to fear a fourth spade falling on the turn because it will kill your action. If you're afraid you won't get any callers on that scary flop, I guarantee you won't get any on the turn if that fourth spade falls. Bet the flop while people are still willing to call bets.

eviljeff

08-24-2005, 04:57 PM

hand 1: this is an easy river check. you're not folding 3 micro players on the river unless you have all of them beaten

hand 2: bet the river. there's a good chance someone will raise and you can 3bet. you just can't risk this getting checked around.

VoraciousReader

08-24-2005, 05:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
While a card that pairs the board may make you a little queasy (but shouldn't have you too worried), you do have to fear a fourth spade falling on the turn because it will kill your action. If you're afraid you won't get any callers on that scary flop, I guarantee you won't get any on the turn if that fourth spade falls. Bet the flop while people are still willing to call bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually thought about that and my thinking (right or wrong) was that with one person leading into that flop and another overcalling, chances are one of them is holding a spade and will go multiple bets with us if that spade falls. But, on reflection, I think you are right.

Sarge85

08-24-2005, 05:23 PM

Hand 1: Check in through on the turn, and your done UI on the river

Hand 2: Your nuts if you try to CR here.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

08-24-2005, 05:55 PM

Hand 1: You did fine, since you held a 4-flush and two overcards. Once that second 5 hits on the river, however, its time to check and move on. You don't want to sink any more money with A high here.

Hand 2: Normally I would say bet that flop harder. However, I just finished reading about deception and I definitely agree with playing the turn aggressively. Finally, bet that river without a second thought. You're going for value, and you need to make up for no raise on the flop. If you're gonna slowplay and delay your bets, make sure to make them at the end.

Great 2nd hand, however--one of the better ones I've seen in ML (for all of a week that I've been here =P).

USDaniels

08-24-2005, 08:32 PM

Hand 1:

I usually check behind on the river with this many people in the pot. I rarely believe that you can fold them all for 1 BB. HU: yes, try it. 3-handed, sometimes try it (game dependent). 4-handed:check it.

Hand 2:

I bet. I capped the turn, so everyone suspects I'm not going anywhere, I would make sure I got a few more BBs in the pot. I guess you could try to convince them that you missed the draw, but I would be pissed if it was checked behind me... I'd rather grind out the two BB than risk them for the one or two more that C/Ring would bring.