Standard blind steal

[SmileyEH]

Sometimes I'll cap preflop, sometimes not. BB is a TAG, folds too much - normal 2/4 characteristics. Good right?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>

-SmileyEH

[private joker]

I don't like it. If you hadn't capped PF, I'd like it more since it sells an A better. But your PF cap means you're going to showdown, so he won't bet in the hopes that you'll fold to a single flop bet. He's betting this flop for value, because he has some sort of ace and thinks your PP is going to call down.

[chief444]

I don't mind the cap given he folds too much. You likely have the best hand anyway and the preflop cap will make it more likely you get a 6 out hand to lay down.

What do you think you accomplish with the flop raise though that you don't accomplish just by calling? Does he bet/fold this flop ever? To me a flop raise here just screams I have no ace and either want a cheap showdown or want the opponent to fold. But I guess that doesn't mean he sees it that way.

[SmileyEH]

I don't think BB's bet is an ace all the time. Turn the thinking around and he could be trying to fold my pocket pair.

-SmileyEH

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think BB's bet is an ace all the time. Turn the thinking around and he could be trying to fold my pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]
This line of thinking seems to conflict with your original read:

[ QUOTE ]
BB is a TAG, folds too much

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[SmileyEH]

Why would you say that? I know lots of players that bet/fold too often when they should bet/call or check/call. If you're villian and you have 88 are you going to feel comfortable calling all the way down? Or peeling with KQo? I think this bet is a desperation attempt to steal the flop or define my hand often enough for a bluff raise to work. FWIW I would almost alwasy raise an ace here as well.

-SmileyEH

[imported_stealthcow]

my blind stealing against tags usualy goes as follows.

i cap 88+ AK AQ KQ AJ and if i'm feeling frisky KJ.

because any card on the board over a T and he's gotta hope he's got it because i'm representing it.

with 22-77 i call the 3bet and raise almost all flops. this also lets me get away from some flops. like AKx and also becuase he's following through on a lot of flops so it puts him to the test when i raise his bet on like a 852 flop.

in this hand, well i dont like that villian is folding too much and is'nt check folding this flop. he could easily have a high pp and want to get to make sure he's not good before he folds. thats about it in terms of what he's laying down. i am pretty sure he's calling down any ace that he 3bet with.

you play a good game. that AJo hand from tstone still pisses me off. but i think this is just you hitting up a some fps.

stealthcow-

[baronzeus]

smiley: I think if you raise here and he calls, you need to let go of the hand.

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you say that? I know lots of players that bet/fold too often when they should bet/call or check/call. If you're villian and you have 88 are you going to feel comfortable calling all the way down? Or peeling with KQo? I think this bet is a desperation attempt to steal the flop or define my hand often enough for a bluff raise to work.

[/ QUOTE ]
I say it because the picture you painted of your Villian in the OP does not seem to correspond with the picture you're painting of Villian in your following posts. It seems like your changing your read as we go. If your initial reason for stealing was because this Villian folds too much then you must give him credit for a hand when he doesn't. And even more so when he's playing back at you. I could understand your play if he's leading the flop after smooth-calling PF - but not after he 3-bets.

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW I would almost alwasy raise an ace here as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
This seems like a bad idea given that Villian 3-bet PF. I can understand raising a good Ace, but raising Ax is probably not the best play. Either he's got you crushed or you're missing value by allowing him to continue betting into you on the BB streets.

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
smiley: I think if you raise here and he calls, you need to let go of the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely.

-SmileyEH

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
i cap 88+ AK AQ KQ AJ and if i'm feeling frisky KJ.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've been capping with low pocket pairs more preflop, and over-representing hands with position, but I'm probably taking it too far.

[ QUOTE ]
he could easily have a high pp and want to get to make sure he's not good before he folds. thats about it in terms of what he's laying down. i am pretty sure he's calling down any ace that he 3bet with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, I don't see him ever folding an ace here - but I think most aces would CR anyway, if the raise works it's because he folded a hand like 88 or KQ here.

[ QUOTE ]
that AJo hand from tstone still pisses me off

[/ QUOTE ]

Was that the hand where I bet a k river into you and you folded 22? I can't remember if the board double paired and you just got counterfeited, or whether you folded the best hand on the end.

-SmileyEH

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
I can understand raising a good Ace, but raising Ax is probably not the best play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't cap Ax so the situation wouldn't really come up that often. If I get 3bet with A5o and flop an ace I would probably go for 1BB per 4th and 5th street.

-SmileyEH

[imported_stealthcow]

uhh there were 2 limpers to you. you raise. i'm getting really really bored so i call with 22, i think the odds checked out for me

anyways flop T 6 6. check check you bet i raise fold fold call. turn like 4 check i bet you call. river K you bet i show i muck you show AJo

stealthcow-

[Derek in NYC]

I do this sometimes also. Obviously you fold to a three bet, but what if hero completes and checks to you on the turn? A continuation bet seems to be in order (and you're done with the hand if he calls). However, as you can see, a lot of these blind steal hands end up getting you deeply involved in the pot. Consequently, although the way you played it is fine, with a hand like 44 on the button, I will fold against most opponents, and raise only where the BB is fairly tight.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think BB's bet is an ace all the time. Turn the thinking around and he could be trying to fold my pocket pair.



[/ QUOTE ]

No, I think the best way to do that for a TAG is to checkraise the flop. By betting, he's allowing you to call down with QQ or whatever, but if he wants to push you off a showdown hand, he'd checkraise. I still think he's betting this flop for value.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think BB's bet is an ace all the time. Turn the thinking around and he could be trying to fold my pocket pair.



[/ QUOTE ]

No, I think the best way to do that for a TAG is to checkraise the flop. By betting, he's allowing you to call down with QQ or whatever, but if he wants to push you off a showdown hand, he'd checkraise. I still think he's betting this flop for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I don't care what the results end up being; I'm with private joker on this one.