PLO Satellite Question

[soweak.]

I wanted to post this hand in both the PLO forum and in MTT to get different views on this situation. I know most of you guys here are cash game players, but maybe you can help me discern whether I should be more aggressive, or in this case look to see more flops. If this was a cash game I'm pretty sure how I'd handle the situation below.

PLO Satellite: 1-5 get seat, rest get 3 rebuys back. 8 remaining. I am currently 4th in chips with about 24K. blinds have just changed to 400/800 with no antes. Biggest stack on the table is about 34K. Smallest stack is 3K.

UTG player limps to MP player who raises to 2800 (slightly less than pot). Folded around to me on the button with A /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/heart.gif T /images/graemlins/heart.gif ...

Quick notes on the players involved. UTG is a tight player who has joined the FT two orbits ago. I have not seen him play many pots and have no reads on his competency or his hand selection. MP3 is an aggressive player who I can tell (also within two orbits) knows what he is doing in both PLO and Tournaments. Hero is competent at PLO, but is not as stong as he would like to be post-flop, he has also been playing rather tight since the FT. Both of these players have me covered.

So my question to you PLO experts is this...

What's my line? How should the dynamics of pot limit bets change my approach to this hand? How much do end game satellite principles play a factor in this hand?

[beset7]

how big is MPs stack

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
how big is MPs stack

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. If he's shortish, 10K and under, I reraise the pot and hope to shut out the other players. If hes medium or above, I flat call and hope to use my position to outplay him on the flop.

If UTG has more than 12K I would be very worried about him waking up with aces, however. The more I think about it, the more I think playing the flop with your position is smarter if these guys are not shortstacks.

[soweak.]

both players have me covered

[autobet]

You have no reason to gamble, as finishing fifth pays the same as first.

I would call and look at the flop.

[mshalen]

You have enough chips that if you call then fold after the flop you are still in ok chip position. If you play after the flop then you are probably going to end up with your whole stack in the pot by the river.

My worry is that you may be caught in a "Sandwich" between the UTG and raiser. If you call and the UTG raises then what?

As a side note: Read Harrington V1 and V2 for great tourney advise. These books have helped me in both MTTs and SNGs.

[barongreenback]

[ QUOTE ]
You have no reason to gamble, as finishing fifth pays the same as first.

I would call and look at the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I wonder if it's even worth seeing a flop. Because you'll be playing carefully postflop there aren't many flops that allow you to make money unless the other players are careful too and you can steal.

I just feel that the chances of making top 5 without taking risks are high. OP's stack is just big enough to play survival poker but not so big that every chip doesn't still make a difference. The smallest 3 or 4 stacks are going to be very vulnerable to bullying and its important to stay the right side of that line and perhaps do a bit of bullying yourself.

James

[soweak.]

Thank you for all your responses! I posted this in MTT as well and the difference in answers was suprising. Almost everyone in MTT says to re-pot in this hand. Most everyone here says to either call or fold.

I dont claim to be an expert on either PLO or in MTTs (my main game is Limit Hold'Em). In the actual hand I did repot it because I thought that the original raiser is either going to fold to my bet or raise me the rest of my chips. Well, he did end up putting me in, and after using most of my time bank I folded. He claimed to have AAxx with AXh. I was not crippled, but I did end up having to fight my way into the satellite seat.

I immediatly wish that I had just called and folded any flop except top set, or a wrap or anyother combination of big draws.

Thanks for your input.

[Bartholow]

If you're going to fold if you don't flop top set or a "big draw", just fold preflop. After all, this is a "super satellite" structure right? Survival is huge.

[barongreenback]

I see this as more of a tourney question than an omaha question so I'm suprised you got the answers you did from MTT.

Your hand is misleading in this situation. The key feature of the hand seems to be KK but if you get all-in relying on that to win then you've made a big mistake.

If you reraise you're putting a lot of pressure on your opponents because of the tourney structure but if he's got AA he may not care since he knows you're unlikely to have AA and you won't want to gamble for all your chips (maybe even with AA). Because of this if you reraise the ace in your hand is more useful than the KK because it reduces the chance of him holding AA. Reraising would basically be a steal and attacking an aggressive player who has shown strength and has me covered would be the last thing on my mind here.

James