It's a Cold World, Baby Girl...

[MAxx]

Is it just me or has the frequency of cry-baby posts in the HUSH forum skyrocketed in the last month or so? What happened to the thick skins? I may retire my catch phrase here cuzz I have worn it out recently. One last time, all together now ladies:

It's A Cold World, Baby Girl.

[Chobohoya]

It's not the last month, it's more like the last 6 months. But compared to a year ago, yes.

[Alobar]

I've also noticed a increase in posts whining about people whining /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Subby]

Are they still planning on splitting the HUSH forum?

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
I've also noticed a increase in posts whining about people whining /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

good point...i suppose it all spirals. same could of course be made about your post /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

ON the other hand I think there is a difference between my post which is an antiwhine, and the posts it targets the whine. As opposed to a whine about whines.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've also noticed a increase in posts whining about people whining /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

good point...i suppose it all spirals. same could of course be made about your post /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

ooooo, now we are thinking on the third level!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
Are they still planning on splitting the HUSH forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've changed my mind on the matter and now think it's a good idea.

Krishan

[arkady]

Not only that, but also on the general forum as well. Although the general forum is generally full of useless posts, so I am not particularly surprised. But I recall just recently asking where you were in a particular thread due to incessant whining.

[sammy_g]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are they still planning on splitting the HUSH forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've changed my mind on the matter and now think it's a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]
What is the proposed split?

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are they still planning on splitting the HUSH forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've changed my mind on the matter and now think it's a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]
What is the proposed split?

[/ QUOTE ]

MUSH (MidHigh Hush) and LUSH (LowHUSH). I assume 5/10 and up and 3/6 and down.

Krishan

[sammy_g]

[ QUOTE ]
MUSH (MidHigh Hush) and LUSH (LowHUSH). I assume 5/10 and up and 3/6 and down.

[/ QUOTE ]
So I can whine about my 10/20 downswings in MidHigh HUSH and 3/6 players can whine about their downswings in Low HUSH? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I don't know if 5/10 is really middle limit, but I guess there aren't many middle limit 6 max games on the net other than 10/20. Even 10/20 might not be considered middle limit.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MUSH (MidHigh Hush) and LUSH (LowHUSH). I assume 5/10 and up and 3/6 and down.

[/ QUOTE ]
So I can whine about my 10/20 downswings in MidHigh HUSH and 3/6 players can whine about their downswings in Low HUSH? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I don't know if 5/10 is really middle limit, but I guess there aren't many middle limit 6 max games on the net other than 10/20. Even 10/20 might not be considered middle limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

The split wouldn't be because of the limits. The split would be because there are a lot of people at 5/10 and above and a ton of people at 3/6 and below. It's more of a population break.

Krishan

[Alobar]

if it does split, I think it should be 10/20 and up

[DMBFan23]

everyone at limit "X" wants their limit to be the first included in MUSH so they can get advice from limit X+1 players and not have to deal with the noobs from limit X-1. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

but yeah objectively it probably should be that 5/10 is Lush.

[sammy_g]

I play mostly 5/10 and think it probably belongs in Low HUSH. But if the only reason is because there's too much traffic and you want to split the forum evenly, 5/10 and up is probably best.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
everyone at limit "X" wants their limit to be the first included in MUSH so they can get advice from limit X+1 players and not have to deal with the noobs from limit X-1. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

but yeah objectively it probably should be that 5/10 is Lush.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont want it to split at 10/20 because I spend some time at that limit, I want it to split at 10/20 because I think thats where it makes the most sense to split it.

regardless of where it splits or what limit Im playing, im still going to spend time in both forums

[baronzeus]

Alobar, the problem there is that mid-high hush would get much less action. about 60% of the posts in the forum are from 5/10, and about 40% from other limits, more lower than higher.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Alobar, the problem there is that mid-high hush would get much less action. about 60% of the posts in the forum are from 5/10, and about 40% from other limits, more lower than higher.

[/ QUOTE ]

so what if MUSH gets less action? Its prolly better that way anyway. Regardless tho, where ever you split it, one forum will have much more traffic than the other

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Alobar, the problem there is that mid-high hush would get much less action. about 60% of the posts in the forum are from 5/10, and about 40% from other limits, more lower than higher.

[/ QUOTE ]

so what if MUSH gets less action? Its prolly better that way anyway. Regardless tho, where ever you split it, one forum will have much more traffic than the other

[/ QUOTE ]


If we encourage microlimiters to post .5/1 and 1/2 hands in Low HUSH instead of micro limit, 0.5/1-3/6 will get as much traffic as 5/10-100/200 IMO. But I haven't done any analysis of it.

[TheCaptain]

maybe we should have one forum exclusively for discussing downswings, theoretical winrates, 5k stat checks, "is 6-max luckier than fullring" and semantical questions like "donkbet vs gaybet" and then have another forum for things like looking at hands and other stuff?

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
if it does split, I think it should be 10/20 and up

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree 100%.

[ghostface]

[ QUOTE ]
if it does split, I think it should be 1/2 and up

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[helpmeout]

The increased in whining is because this forum sucks now, there is too much traffic.

You got freaking 3/6 players answering questions by 10/20 players.

You got new players spamming up the forum cos they dont know anything (which is fine). But higher limit players dont need to read the same crappy hand posts all the time or preflop questions.

I dont wanna filter through so much fluff everyday.

What good is it posting a 10/20 hand when you get maybe 1-2 good responses from players at your limit a couple of fluff posts and by the morning its 100 threads from the top.

No one has time to look through 100 threads a day and see which is best.

I think its time the mods pulled their finger out and get this sorted.

I'm sure most 10/20 and above would rather have a smaller forum with much less activity. Actually reading threads by lesser knowns not just looking for the usual names.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
The increased in whining is because this forum sucks now, there is too much traffic.

You got freaking 3/6 players answering questions by 10/20 players.

You got new players spamming up the forum cos they dont know anything (which is fine). But higher limit players dont need to read the same crappy hand posts all the time or preflop questions.

I dont wanna filter through so much fluff everyday.

What good is it posting a 10/20 hand when you get maybe 1-2 good responses from players at your limit a couple of fluff posts and by the morning its 100 threads from the top.

No one has time to look through 100 threads a day and see which is best.

I think its time the mods pulled their finger out and get this sorted.

I'm sure most 10/20 and above would rather have a smaller forum with much less activity. Actually reading threads by lesser knowns not just looking for the usual names.

[/ QUOTE ]

[baronzeus]

Man. There is a lot of "hate" for people like me.

I am a lower limit (5/10) player right now. I plan on moving up once I win 200 more BB at my current limit. I feel like I make decent contributions to this forum. But just the same I would like contributions from more experienced poker players. If you push me into micro hush, that will be detrimental to my game for sure.

And what are you going to do? Ignore my posts in high limit hush? I'll still post responses there whether or not you "appreciate" it. if you don't like my advice, ignore it.

[Redeye]

[ QUOTE ]
You got freaking 3/6 players answering questions by 10/20 players.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a ridiculous criticism. People improve by participating in interesting hands regardless of limit. This in no way clutters the forum because these posts are already there, it just increases replies and even can force a higher limit player to explain a situation that causes them to learn more about their game.

[helpmeout]

No one hates people like you there are just people on different levels of thinking.

The games are different.

I'm not gonna argue the same points from half a dozen threads on the subject.

The mods know that the majority want either 2 or 3 forums.
Micro 0-2/4
mid 3/6-5/10
high 10/20 +

or
HUSH 0-5/10
Mid high hush 10/20+

The time has come.

[uw_madtown]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You got freaking 3/6 players answering questions by 10/20 players.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a ridiculous criticism. People improve by participating in interesting hands regardless of limit. This in no way clutters the forum because these posts are already there, it just increases replies and even can force a higher limit player to explain a situation that causes them to learn more about their game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Winner.

Complaints about noise:signal ratio should be focused on thread starters, not thread responders.

[baronzeus]

This is stupid. 10/20 would be included in mid limit if are 3 forums.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]

The time has come.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I don't much care about the split.

Coming from another perspective, I think newer players (1/2 - 2/4) probably feel a little intimidated from posting and splitting the forums will give them more room to maneuver.

Krishan

[nervous]

A 3-way split would make the most sense in my opinion, if a split was needed. Up to 2/4 plays much different than 3/6 and 5/10 and those play (I'm assuming here) much different than 10/20 and up. However, I don't think that 3 separate forums are needed.

I think that there shouldn't be any separation because what will happen is that both the baords will behave exactly the same way. The regular 3/6 and 5/10 posters will still answer the 10/20's guestions, and this will be GOOD not bad. The 10/20 players will still answer the lower limit questions. Look at the full ring's different sections and how the higher limit players still answer low limit questions.

[helpmeout]

The problem is that the 3/6 players shouldnt be in the same forum as the 10/20 players.

There should be a place for the different levels like micro small stakes and midhigh.

You dont have a 50c/$1 player in Midhigh giving 100/200 players advice.

3/6 is not 10/20 the games are totally different when you get there you will see. The 3/6 player really does not know jack because he doesnt know the average player 10/20 player.

The same goes the other way but usually the higher player will know how the lower games are so he/she knows the difference. However his/her advice might be wrong if he is thinking about how a typical 10/20 game might be.

[dave44]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a ridiculous criticism. People improve by participating in interesting hands regardless of limit. This in no way clutters the forum because these posts are already there, it just increases replies and even can force a higher limit player to explain a situation that causes them to learn more about their game.

[/ QUOTE ]
Disagreed. I've gotten replies that make very little sense and are not well thought out from people who don't care much to hear and understand your POV. There are plenty of players that play lower stakes than I do whose thoughts are well constructed and I greatly appreciate- that is not what I am referring to. Whether this "clutters" up the forum or not, it annoys me so I apologize if thats wrong.

[dave44]

I completely agree with this and think it would benefit all players who post and read this forum. Hands will receive more attention if there are less of them posted and it is easier to access the ones that would be of interest to you. More interesting discussions will ensue.

[ALL1N]

[ QUOTE ]
there is too much traffic.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. I have stopped posting almost completely because of this.

[uw_madtown]

I'm not disagreeing with a split, I think it's a good idea. I just don't think saying "3/6 players shouldn't be posting in response to 10/20 hands" is correct. It can be a valuable learning experience.

People as described -- 3/6 players who post thinking they know all and refuse to consider the possibility they're wrong -- are morons and are going to be a problem wherever they post.

[MAxx]

For the record, I wasn't trying to single out smaller stakes players... just unecessary whining in general. Surprised this thread got much response at all and it's interesting that this turned in to a split Hush thread, but that's fine too.

I'd personally like to see a split at 10/20 myself. I think it would benefit everyone. Would like to see it soon.

[wheelz]

Yeah, is this actually happening? Or are we just debating about whether it'll be beneficial yet again? I too have given up my excessive posting habits because there's just too much clutter here nowadays.

[Danenania]

We march at dawn...

[helpmeout]

3/6 players shouldnt be responding to 10/20 hands thats just how it is.

It is too large a jump in skill. The 3/6 player even if he or she is winning large amounts offers nothing new because they do not know how the games are played.

It is not like lower limit ring games where the games are all passive and just get tighter as you move up. 6max games become much more aggressive preflop and postflop and take considerable adjustment.

This does not mean that they shouldnt be reading the posts although they should be reading more 3/6 and 5/10 hands.

Higher limit players will still respond to lower limit posts so its not like you are going to miss out.

Its just unfortunate that with so much clutter many experienced players have given up.

Most good threads last 3 hours until they dissapear into the abyss of random hand posts, bad beat threads, bragging and small sample stat posts.

[yanicehand]

Don't take it the wrong way, no one is "hating" on you. There are plenty of lower limit players whose advice I think is some of the best on the forum, and I'm sure others would agree.

However, 10/20 is a completely, completely different game than the 5/10 and 3/6 games which play very similarly. You have played those two, and I'm sure you'd agree. Once you play the 10/20, you'll realize how different it is, and how beneficial it would be to not have as many responses from people playing for 1/20th and 1/10th the stakes with no idea of the metagame differences.

Nothing can benefit a forum better than quality over quantity, and cutting down on the traffic and clutter would help both (or all 3 if that is the case) forums.

[nervous]

edit

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
3/6 players shouldnt be responding to 10/20 hands thats just how it is.

It is too large a jump in skill. The 3/6 player even if he or she is winning large amounts offers nothing new because they do not know how the games are played.


[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno if I agree with you or not. I completely get what you are saying, I see many posts from players who are playing 1/2 and such and respond to hands played at a much higher limit, and the posts are often not worth reading. But at the same time, this forum is here to help people learn and you'll learn more from responding to posts than you ever will from posting hands youself. And it doesnt really add clutter to glaze over some unkown's post while you scroll down a thread in flat mode. Where as the plethora of crappy posts in the main forum actually do cause clutter.

I think maybe each person should sort of self police themself, realizing if you are reading a hand played a stake outside your realm of understanding, that you should only post if you feel you really have something to add, or at least a worthwhile question to ask. I know I personally post replys to hands played outside my limit, I'd hate to be told to stop just cuz I don't play that limit. But for the most part I think thats what most people on here do (police themselves), and that problem really isnt an issue. The real problem is the amount of clutter in the actual main thread. Which if there was a sticky FAQ at the top of this forum would really cut down on the amount of crappy same posts. Either way tho, I still think there should be a split.

[helpmeout]

People should be able to reply to any hand posts in a forum they should be in.

However 10/20 players should not be in the same forum as 1/2 and 3/6 players.

Wrong advice just flows all round because people are playing different games.

It wasnt a problem before because HUSH didnt get a huge amount of traffic. 1/2 players knew their place and there wasnt much crap to filter through. Higher limit players didnt mind reply to newbie posts cos there werent that many.

Now its just rediculous. I dont know who 90% of people are in here now and I have been here for a while.

Most of the regulars hardly post anymore and filtering the crap threads just isnt worth the time.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
The increased in whining is because this forum sucks now, there is too much traffic.

You got freaking 3/6 players answering questions by 10/20 players.

You got new players spamming up the forum cos they dont know anything (which is fine). But higher limit players dont need to read the same crappy hand posts all the time or preflop questions.

I dont wanna filter through so much fluff everyday.

What good is it posting a 10/20 hand when you get maybe 1-2 good responses from players at your limit a couple of fluff posts and by the morning its 100 threads from the top.

No one has time to look through 100 threads a day and see which is best.

I think its time the mods pulled their finger out and get this sorted.

I'm sure most 10/20 and above would rather have a smaller forum with much less activity. Actually reading threads by lesser knowns not just looking for the usual names.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just asked Mat for a decision on a forum split, and advocated a split at 10/20+ because I think that's the right level. Just FWIW.

Rob

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]

I just asked Mat for a decision on a forum split, and advocated a split at 10/20+ because I think that's the right level. Just FWIW.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, I just did the same thing, literally 10 minutes ago

[Fabian]

I agree with what helpmeout has said in this thread, and also think 10/20 should be the first limit for the higher stakes forum.

[waffle]

[ QUOTE ]
I may retire my catch phrase here cuzz I have worn it out recently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never retire the catch phrase.


-An Unknown