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View Full Version : Good even 1/8th of the time here?


08-24-2005, 09:54 AM
I run into this a lot and I'm wondering if I'm good often enough to bother calling. Villian is about 36/5. Given he:
a) Cold calls, indicates a decent hand
b) Raises the river, is almost never a bluff

Is there any reason to think there's a chance my top pair is good? If he'd raised the turn, I'd call down because I see a lot of turn bluff-raises or semi-bluffs with TPNK or middle pair.

If the pot were bigger it'd be an easy call. Am I good 1/8th of the time here? What's he cold call with that I still beat?

Party Poker (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font> Hero raises, villian calls

Flop: 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero bets, villian calls

Turn: 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero bets, villian calls

River: J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero bets, villian raises, Hero ???

Final Pot:

SnglMaltScotch
08-24-2005, 10:40 AM
This is a very difficult situation for me also. The way that I usually handle it is to call the first time that it happens to ensure that this guy isn't making a move. When I find out that he isn't, I usually fold most of the times from then on. I feel that the first call is good for metagame principles since if you fold the first one, people start coming after you. They probably won't make note of you folding in later situations.

Comments?

08-24-2005, 10:44 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I feel that the first call is good for metagame principles since if you fold the first one, people start coming after you. Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to mention that too, but at 6-max the tables seem to roll over so quickly that mostly I find metagame concerns don't seem to pay off.

In this case the guy doesn't seem like a maniac (his low PFR is indicative of his play in general). He's one of the many 3/6 6-max players that tend to chew me up when the cards go bad...loose, but only a slightly, and semi-passive, but not a calling station. I can't seem to either push them off a hand or force them to play in a way that reveals their hand early.

DMBFan23
08-24-2005, 10:46 AM
you're SB in this hand? in that case yes I think he will have a worse ace often enough here, and some other random crap. but yes, he'll also have two pair a fair amount

08-24-2005, 10:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
you're SB in this hand? in that case yes I think he will have a worse ace often enough here, and some other random crap. but yes, he'll also have two pair a fair amount

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero is UTG. Villian is UTG+1. Forgot how broken the hand converter is /images/graemlins/frown.gif.

StellarWind
08-24-2005, 11:10 AM
[OP revised to say this is UTG v UTG+1. Pot is approximately 8.5 BB.]

You can't fold everytime or even most of the time someone raises the river. Not in the long run. Agreed?

So which hands should you call? The best ones of course. Here I have top pair of aces and my decent kicker is still playing and capable of scooping a worse ace. That's an above average hand for this situation. I could have a worse ace, a queen, a pocket pair, or a gutshot that spiked the jack.

So that settles it. This time I call and keep him honest. Next time when I have KQ, KJ, or A7s I'll let it go. It's a simple system that balances my play and keeps me from being stolen blind.

Of course if you know the guy like a book you don't need a system because you know what you need to do. But that's rarely the case online.

08-24-2005, 11:22 AM
[ QUOTE ]

So that settles it. This time I call and keep him honest. Next time when I have KQ, KJ, or A7s I'll let it go. It's a simple system that balances my play and keeps me from being stolen blind.

Of course if you know the guy like a book you don't need a system because you know what you need to do. But that's rarely the case online.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. Seems like sounds advice (similar to the previous poster as well).

My leak is that I tend to call down every time and every time I end up frustrated. I know when I look at my "won % when raised on the river", it's like 90+%, which makes me question whether I've turned into a profit center for others raising the river.

Part of it is loss of confidence. After kicking butt for a long while now over multiple levels, I've slipped 100BB in less than 500 hands. I've slipped 100BB before, but never with this sort of free fall.

As I'm going back over hands I see lots of them like this that make me question whether I know what I'm doing. Sounds like the answer is "sort of". I need to pay more attention to the 2nd/3rd time it happens in a session with someone. I'll still lose in these situations, but at least I'll lose less when they hit these 2-pair on the river. Right now I'm on a type of tilt, calling it every time, unable to believe I've lost top pair yet again.