Call here?

[Dave D]

***** Hand History for Game 2586586651 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:15102373 Level:8 Blinds (150/300) - Tuesday, August 23, 22:00:45 EDT 2005
Table Multi-Table(433036) Table #7 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: dogling ( $2095 )
Seat 4: jknob ( $5813 )
Seat 5: MCoansh ( $2854 )
Seat 10: MFerg4084 ( $811 )
Seat 2: RAllan2121 ( $9450 )
Seat 6: Zardoz7 ( $3863 )
Seat 3: RonMxicoDonk ( $2035 )
Seat 8: djkkl ( $7640 )
Seat 7: AdamDaryl ( $612 )
Seat 9: iGOTthis420 ( $4120 )
Trny:15102373 Level:8
Blinds (150/300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to dogling [ 9c 9d ]
RAllan2121 folds.
RonMxicoDonk folds.
jknob raises [900].
MCoansh folds.
Zardoz7 folds.
AdamDaryl is all-In [612]
djkkl folds.
MFerg4084 is all-In [661]

Hero can call for 600 leaving himself ~1400 but has to pay blinds totaling 450 in next two hands.

[DemonDeac]

jesus dave, are u ever in a situation where ur not shortstacked.

i call cuz the other guys are desperate and u can check it down and 9s is a good hand.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
jesus dave, are u ever in a situation where ur not shortstacked.

i call cuz the other guys are desperate and u can check it down and 9s is a good hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I should put that in my location.

[DemonDeac]

been done before, but go for it anyway

[Dave D]

The real answer is that the toughest situations for me are when I'm a shorty. Haven't had a great run lately either.

[betgo]

I think this is push or fold. I don't see the point of calling and trying to check it down with the bigger stack.

[DemonDeac]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see the point of calling and trying to check it down with the bigger stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

knocking two people out of the tournament. the more people, the better. and if u hit ur set, u can try adn milk it cuz ur guarantted to have the best hand

[vicpanic]

Am i misreading this or did you not post what your UTG action was?

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see the point of calling and trying to check it down with the bigger stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

knocking two people out of the tournament. the more people, the better. and if u hit ur set, u can try adn milk it cuz ur guarantted to have the best hand

[/ QUOTE ]

There are at least 70 people left in this tournament and you're short stacked. You shouldn't care whether you're knocking people out at this point, just think about what'll get you the most chips.

You're not nearly deep enough to be playing this for set value, and you do pretty well against the big stack's range here. If he folds preflop you have good equity against the short-stacks' ranges and an overlay from the pot, but it's not the end of the world if he calls. If he has an overpair, too bad, but he very often doesn't.

With 10BB and that action ahead of me, my chips go into the middle every time here.

you can't just call this.

You have less than 10 BB and 900 is almost half your stack.

You also have 3 others in the pot and there's a high probability that they will have one of the overcards that will hit.

If you push, you'll get HU with the raiser who will probably call you.

This is a push or fold. But not a call. Calling is the worst option.

[ QUOTE ]
Am i misreading this or did you not post what your UTG action was?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've noticed that too. you had to act first.(you are UTG) what did you do?

[37offsuit]

Looking at the order of numbers, I'd say the hand converter screwed them up.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am i misreading this or did you not post what your UTG action was?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've noticed that too. you had to act first.(you are UTG) what did you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad I wasn't clear on this. Yes I was UTG and limped, and so that's why it was 600 more for me to call. Table hadn't been too crazy so I was expecting to be able to see the flop after just limping. Maybe this was a mistake too and I should have open pushed? I'm personally not a huge fan of pushing 99 UTG, but I suppose that's an option.

edit: So yeah, I just checked the hand history, there were two sidepots on teh flop, one 597 and the other for 178. calling here gives me 4.37:1. I should have included this information before, and is also why I let myself think that calling is ok as I'm getting pretty big odds.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see the point of calling and trying to check it down with the bigger stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

knocking two people out of the tournament. the more people, the better. and if u hit ur set, u can try adn milk it cuz ur guarantted to have the best hand

[/ QUOTE ]

There are at least 70 people left in this tournament and you're short stacked. You shouldn't care whether you're knocking people out at this point, just think about what'll get you the most chips.



[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I think I let myself be lulled into a false sense of security by thinking I had a chance of big stack letting it check down. Often people think they can't bet unless they have a hand to kill the AI's with, regardless of where in the tourney we are, so that was my thinking. And also of course unless there's a huge sidepot (which there actually was here when I called) people don't like having their bluffs get shown.


Without being too results based, I'm concluding here that I should have layed this down after the call. I just wasn't getting the odds to make a set and/or hope for undercards.

[DemonDeac]

[ QUOTE ]

My bad I wasn't clear on this. Yes I was UTG and limped, and so that's why it was 600 more for me to call. Table hadn't been too crazy so I was expecting to be able to see the flop after just limping. Maybe this was a mistake too and I should have open pushed?

[/ QUOTE ]

yea. this is a def push IMO with ur stack and being the first in. when ur UTG and push, people tend to put u on a wider range of hands since the blinds are about to hit you. i didnt even realize that u limped in the OP, but u def need to push this. i think if u had a stronger hand could u limp here.

and for the record for the other guy, i didnt know theere 70 poeople left.

[Dave D]

There aren't, there's like 250ish out of 1000. He was saying I shouldn't be worried about bluffing against AIers unless (and not knocking them out) until there's 70 left.

[DemonDeac]

[ QUOTE ]
There aren't, there's like 250ish out of 1000. He was saying I shouldn't be worried about bluffing against AIers unless (and not knocking them out) until there's 70 left.

[/ QUOTE ]

no i think he's sayin theres 70 people left. anywho, calling is wrong after thinking about thsi. im an idiot.

[Dave D]

Calling or pushing?

Here come results.

The big stack villian bets the flop fairly hard, 750 after I check to him on a K48 flop (2 suited). I fold and villian shows JJ, turns a set, and beats AK and 22.

I was actually semi surprised that villian raised with such a good hand as he'd been semi aggressive with a big stack.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There aren't, there's like 250ish out of 1000. He was saying I shouldn't be worried about bluffing against AIers unless (and not knocking them out) until there's 70 left.

[/ QUOTE ]

no i think he's sayin theres 70 people left. anywho, calling is wrong after thinking about thsi. im an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

fwiw, I was saying there were at least 70 since it's a Party tournament and he's at table 7 - thus there are at least 7 tables left. If you're going to get picky, this means there are at least 64 people left, since at 63 they'd move one of the 10 from this table to another.

And you're not bluffing against the AI short-stacks, you're pushing for value. You have way, way more equity than you need in those side pots. You push instead of calling because your stack is too short for any play postflop to be a good thing. If you were saying you wouldn't figure the big stack would bluff after you flat-call his raise and see a flop, I'd say you'd be surprised what you encounter in these tournaments.

Just push. Also, when you first get to act pushing is better than limping, since you're stack's only about 6xBB.