How to handle a maniac?

[sirpupnyc]

Last night in a Pokerroom 22, I found myself 3 seats to the right of an utter maniac. Or maybe he was an idiot, or some of each.

Early on, he goes all-in on an A-high 3-/images/graemlins/club.gif flop with AQo, neither one a club. (We know this because he got called by AJo, also clubless.)

A while later, I raise PF with 99 and he calls. 3-/images/graemlins/diamond.gif flop, something like AJ9, he goes all-in. He has me covered, so it's all my chips if I want to stick with my set. Based on the crazy plays he's been pulling, I strongly suspect he has a pair at best. (He did, however, later on pull the same maneuver on someone else and actually show down a flush.)

Do you call here because he's a maniac, or avoid him in case it's the time he really flopped a flush?

I folded, he showed Q/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/club.gif.

Both times he had some babble about not wanting to let someone draw to the flush cheap. (Uhhhh, what if someone already HAS the flush?)

Through the whole thing he was making what I have to say were idiot bets, putting in all his chips with hands he couldn't possibly think were best, repeatedly leaving himself open to being busted by people who didn't just have him beaten, but people who had him badly beaten. Unfortunately, whatever cards he needed seemed to come, no matter how far behind he was when the money went in.

Do you play with these people and take your lumps when they bust you in spite of their idiot play, or do you avoid them?

(It came down to him and me heads-up with him in the lead about 4-1 in chips...I managed to come back to a 2-1 lead in 25 hands or so, but a miracle came his way and the 500-1000 blind level came to chomp me to bits.)

[sahala]

[ QUOTE ]
A while later, I raise PF with 99 and he calls. 3-/images/graemlins/diamond.gif flop, something like AJ9, he goes all-in. He has me covered, so it's all my chips if I want to stick with my set. Based on the crazy plays he's been pulling, I strongly suspect he has a pair at best. (He did, however, later on pull the same maneuver on someone else and actually show down a flush.)

Do you call here because he's a maniac, or avoid him in case it's the time he really flopped a flush?


[/ QUOTE ]

Were you really convinced he flopped a flush, or that he had an overset?

It sounds like his aggressive play got the best of you.

Do you have a complete hand history for this? It's hard to evaluate a line without knowing blind sizes, button placement, how many people left, and stack sizes. I can only guess that you probably had the best hand on the flop. Maybe it's a leak but another has to really convince me that my set is beaten and that I should fold. For every time that I've been beaten by an overset, flush, or straight I've taken down a ton of big pots against someone pushing all in with TPTK trying to stamp out a draw.

It is entirely up to you whether to call here, if you want to take these players on, you will finish out the money more maybe, but get bigger wins when you do make it. Or you can opt for more money finishes but get more 2nds and 3rds.

Just remember those are the plays the maniac style can work well on.

[tigerite]

I seriously cannot believe you folded a set of 9's on an A J 9 flop just because it was all diamonds! I can't see myself ever folding that.

[lastchance]

You have a freaking set on the flop. You've got redraws to a full house, and a very good made hand.

Folding that to someone who could have a pair there was incredibly dumb. You need to call that normally, because a flush just doesn't happen often enough to ignore the fact you have a made hand with great redraws.

Don't be scared of the 3-flush board when you have a set. You get to suck out when you don't have them beat, which means you should play sets fast and loose.

[Uppercut]

[ QUOTE ]
A while later, I raise PF with 99 and he calls. 3-/images/graemlins/diamond.gif flop, something like AJ9, he goes all-in. He has me covered, so it's all my chips if I want to stick with my set. Based on the crazy plays he's been pulling, I strongly suspect he has a pair at best.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the perfect situation in which to double up. Who cares if he has you covered? The maniac is the type of person you should LEAST fear in this situation because his range of hands is so broad. I cannot believe you folded your set here!

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
You have a freaking set on the flop. You've got redraws to a full house, and a very good made hand.

Folding that to someone who could have a pair there was incredibly dumb. You need to call that normally, because a flush just doesn't happen often enough to ignore the fact you have a made hand with great redraws.

Don't be scared of the 3-flush board when you have a set. You get to suck out when you don't have them beat, which means you should play sets fast and loose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not only that, but the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif is on the flop. This takes out a large chunk of flushes straight off. So is the J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. There goes KJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, QJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and JT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. The only ones you are afraid of are Kx /images/graemlins/diamond.gif or some random suited connector low crap like 45 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif..

Instead of putting him on a specific hands (a flush or not a flush), put him on the spread of hands with which he'd make this bet. Considering that he did this with AQo before, this spread certainly contains a pair, and may even contain a gutshot. You can call confidently here, and consider it to be a bad beat if he's got the flush and you don't improve.

[Myst]

[ QUOTE ]
Last night in a Pokerroom 22, I found myself 3 seats to the right of an utter maniac. Or maybe he was an idiot, or some of each.

Early on, he goes all-in on an A-high 3-/images/graemlins/club.gif flop with AQo, neither one a club. (We know this because he got called by AJo, also clubless.)

A while later, I raise PF with 99 and he calls. 3-/images/graemlins/diamond.gif flop, something like AJ9, he goes all-in. He has me covered, so it's all my chips if I want to stick with my set. Based on the crazy plays he's been pulling, I strongly suspect he has a pair at best. (He did, however, later on pull the same maneuver on someone else and actually show down a flush.)

Do you call here because he's a maniac, or avoid him in case it's the time he really flopped a flush?

I folded, he showed Q/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/club.gif.

Both times he had some babble about not wanting to let someone draw to the flush cheap. (Uhhhh, what if someone already HAS the flush?)

Through the whole thing he was making what I have to say were idiot bets, putting in all his chips with hands he couldn't possibly think were best, repeatedly leaving himself open to being busted by people who didn't just have him beaten, but people who had him badly beaten. Unfortunately, whatever cards he needed seemed to come, no matter how far behind he was when the money went in.

Do you play with these people and take your lumps when they bust you in spite of their idiot play, or do you avoid them?

(It came down to him and me heads-up with him in the lead about 4-1 in chips...I managed to come back to a 2-1 lead in 25 hands or so, but a miracle came his way and the 500-1000 blind level came to chomp me to bits.)

[/ QUOTE ]

You folded a set with that maniac!?!??!?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU.

[jeffraider]

How to handle a maniac?

DON'T FOLD SETS TO HIM

[The Don]

[ QUOTE ]
How to handle a maniac?

DON'T FOLD SETS TO HIM

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously...

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
A while later, I raise PF with 99 and he calls. 3- flop, something like AJ9, he goes all-in. He has me covered, so it's all my chips if I want to stick with my set. Based on the crazy plays he's been pulling, I strongly suspect he has a pair at best. (He did, however, later on pull the same maneuver on someone else and actually show down a flush.)

Do you call here because he's a maniac, or avoid him in case it's the time he really flopped a flush?

[/ QUOTE ]

Easiest call ever. I don't even care if he's been a maniac. Call very quickly.

If you never folded a set on a 3 flush flop, you'd be very close to correct (maybe some weird bubble scenario exception with a micro-stack out of the hand or whatever). But you can't give anybody (much less a maniac for chrissake!) credit for a flopped flush, especially in a heads-up pot. But my god man, you have re-draws anyway even if they did get lucky. But in this case, the chance that you're actually behind is like 0.1%.

Folding there is inexcusable. If you're going to fold sets to a maniac, you might as well fold everything pre-flop.

[bawcerelli]

[ QUOTE ]
I found myself 3 seats to the right of an utter maniac. Or maybe he was an idiot



[/ QUOTE ]

he couldn't be too much of an idiot because he certainly got in your head.

[sirpupnyc]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have a complete hand history for this? It's hard to evaluate a line without knowing blind sizes, button placement, how many people left, and stack sizes. I can only guess that you probably had the best hand on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have the complete HH, but IIRC it was 15-30 and the button was either mine or between us, because he acted first after the flop. Table was 9-handed, maybe.


So when you know you're either way way ahead or way way behind (redraws, sure, but all your chips on what could be 7 outs?) but don't know which, you call, eh? I figured since I had no idea which it was and we were only about 15 hands in, I didn't want to risk the whole thing on finding out. This thinking was wrong, of course, but who thinks right every time? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Xhad]

It's better than 7 outs because even if the turn doesn't help it will automatically add 3 more.

[four2flush]

Are u the same guy that folded a set of 10's on the WSOP circuit event a few weeks ago! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Hornacek]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding that to someone who could have a pair there was incredibly dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]
nh.

[jon462]

[ QUOTE ]
I seriously cannot believe you folded a set of 9's on an A J 9 flop just because it was all diamonds! I can't see myself ever folding that.

[/ QUOTE ]

[capone0]

If it's the tightest player in the world I'd easily do it, but if it's a maniac I would have serious issues folding. Most players online like to slowplay their monster hands, why would someone force the issue here.

[sirpupnyc]

Yep, that was me. Is having 3 cards with the same number good or something?

[capone0]

I heard 4 of the same number is better, and 5 in a row of the same suit is even better, but you gotta be scared of da Royal /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[sirpupnyc]

I had a Royal Bupkus in a home game last night...that's extra-good, right?