Poorly played AK.... thoughts?

[stupidsucker]

I have been strugling lately with how to play AK, and I think I really screwed this up.

Blinds 50-100
7 handed
1575 stack

UTG limps in(900 stack)
1 fold
I muck.

Why would I do this?

[Hendricks433]

Mucking AK to no raise? I think thats just Horrible. I would raise to 400 since theres a limper and go from there. I dont like limping here with Blinds getting big. Folding AK preflop with no raises I think is def a losing play.

[raptor517]

lol, i duno i rather just open shove rather than fold. holla

[Hendricks433]

If your not gonna play AK then your only playing AA,KK,and QQ? how often are you gonna get those hands?

[downtown]

It's a more difficult situation than it appears at first glance. A "good sized raise" to about t400-T500 is about 1/3 of your stack. You don't want a call and then have to play postflop after you miss, but at the same time you don't want a bigger stack (assuming there is one) to come over the top. OTOH, pushing seems aggro, because you don't want to risk having to race for t900 from the limpers 55 or whatever for a measely t350 currently in the pot when you are currently very comfortable at t1575. So when I come across a situation like this it helps to have thought about it before hand (why I'm here at least), because your brain can melt down when playing 4-8 tables at once and you can just fold. I'm guessing that's what happened to you here. You just said, I'm gonna be weak/tight this hand and fold.

Or you misclicked.

[downtown]

[ QUOTE ]
lol, i duno i rather just open shove rather than fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW this is what I do here. I left that out.

Edit- but I'm aggro.

[bones]

I don't play with you often, nor have I seen any of your hands that you haven't posted here. Having said that, I think you might be more in need of a heater than anyone here. Your confidence seems shot, as does your faith in the "right" plays working out.

I don't have any recommendations or helpful words, other than play the right way and start sucking out on the bubble.

<font color="white"> And please stop folding AK here. If you don't want to play postflop with it, just push and pick up the 250 in the pot. </font>

[stupidsucker]

More info

100/200
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 7
10+1
UTG limper:(900)
Folder:(1420)
Hero: (1575)
Seat 9:(2015)
Seat 1:(255)
Seat 2:(540)
Seat 3:(1295)

Also this is only the second hand of level 4.

[Hendricks433]

I guess I can see folding being understandable but Id much rather open push. I think raising to 400 leaves yourself too vulnerable to a stop and go from UTG too I think. I get played way too many times by Stop and Go's.

[durron597]

You have position on the limper, this is a 10+1, raise to 400 and call a push from anybody.

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
A "good sized raise" to about t400-T500 is about 1/3 of your stack. You don't want a call and then have to play postflop after you miss, but at the same time you don't want a bigger stack (assuming there is one) to come over the top. OTOH, pushing seems aggro, because you don't want to risk having to race for t900 from the limpers 55 or whatever for a measely t350 currently in the pot when you are currently very comfortable at t1575.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my thought process in a nutshell.

At the 10+1s people severly overplay their PPs right down to 22. I thought to myself... "Is this really worth the risk?" If I get called I am most likely behind. With 4 players left to act and a limper. AND 2 short stacks that will surely play any pair at this level.

I never would have folded this before. I would have pushed without even thinking. Bones is right about me needing a heater. I have no doubt in my mind that I have been making some weak-tight plays like this early, but this was the extreme, and I havent made many of these.

Ive played a lot of SnGs and I have never really had one last longer then 100 SnGs. Normally all minor heaters are preceded or immeadiatly suceeded by a major downswing.

Think back to your worst roller coaster swing ever.
I've been on that swing for over a year.

Some of that could have been avoided by better play on my part. No doubt I make my fair share of mistakes, but I still feel like I have had a pretty rough run of luck. All of my hands may even work out to be statistacly perfect, but I really seem to hit a wall in the big hands.

<font color="white">Ive never folded AK here before. I thought about it.. and figured it wasnt costing me much. For the record a small stack pushed UTG called with AQs. Small stack had J9s. </font>

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
At the 10+1s people severly overplay their PPs right down to 22.

[/ QUOTE ] They also overplay any ace and big kings. But you know this already.

[Myst]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been strugling lately with how to play AK, and I think I really screwed this up.

Blinds 50-100
7 handed
1575 stack

UTG limps in(900 stack)
1 fold
I muck.

Why would I do this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you know the fold is horrible. Level 4+, AK is a monster hand, and it derives its power from getting calls from Ax type hands.

[Myst]

[ QUOTE ]
At the 10+1s people severly overplay their PPs right down to 22. I thought to myself... "Is this really worth the risk?" If I get called I am most likely behind. With 4 players left to act and a limper. AND 2 short stacks that will surely play any pair at this level.

[/ QUOTE ]

They also overplay Ax.

[durron597]

Don't take this the wrong way... but folding here is why your cooler has lasted as long as it has.

Eff Pee Ess.

Of course I'm not one to talk, I've been FPSing my $ away a lot recently too.

Something to keep in mind; don't try to "win" every SnG by "outplaying" your opponents and making Hellmuthian folds. Just make the best play without overthinking yourself and if you lose you lose.

The only way to guarantee a loss is if you fold too much; at least if you're in there raising at least you give yourself the chance to get lucky.

(Obviously the advice in this thread can be taken to the other extreme which is also bad, but I hope you see what I'm getting at).

[stupidsucker]

I don't feel that my move was horrible. -chip EV and -$EV yes.

A different form of EV comes into play, and it was the sole source of my decision. In a split second I can run through my options.

Raise
Push
Fold

I felt pushing was probably the best move and I ruled out raising right away. Could I really fold this I paused...

My ultimate choice to fold was a risk vs reward in my head dealing with my mental state. I knew that folding it was wrong and weaktight. I also knew that I didnt feel in any jeopardy if I do fold. If I push and I lose I would be pissed. I wasnt ready for the consequences of a push so I folded.

I eventualy took third.

knowing that I wasn't ready then I have decided to take a break for the day until I am ready.

All things considered I think I made the right move. No +EV push is worth a potential damaging mental block. Had I lost that hand I would have been done for the day.

Going through poker woes and personal problems at the same time require careful thought. I cant stop playing, but I can limit my play based on how I feel.

For the record. I feel pushing is &gt; raising here and folding is &gt; raising.

[stupidsucker]

FPS is my worst leak at the 11s. Perhaps I shoudl actualy take the few backign offers I have had for the 55s. I play much better there.

I dont want to hear crap about how if I cant beat the 11s I cant beat the 55s. I have beaten both. I feel more comfortable at the 55s. I have studied it more, and I dont feel like a 20% roi day is a waste of time at the 55s. I can make a lot more level 5-6 pushes at the 55s then I can the 11s.

<font color="white"> They aren't typos, I have dislexia (not really) </font>

[1C5]

I feel more comfortable at the 22s than the 11s so I know where you are coming from.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't feel that my move was horrible

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on man... stop overthinking everything. If nothing else, like Raptor said, just push pre-flop.

I hate to pile on, but it really isn't surprising that your cooler has lasted as long as it has if you're freezing up in spots like this. Just push and let Ax call you here if nothing else.

Come on man, you have to know better than this.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would I do this?

[/ QUOTE ]

In response to your post, as a poster on this forum I would like to advise you of the following:

[ ] Read the FAQ
[ ] Use the Search Function
[ ] It's Just Variance
[ ] Your Sample Size is Too Small
[ ] This is a Bad Beat Post!
[x] You Might Suck
[ ] Party is Rigged
[ ] Pwn3d!
[ ] Push
[ ] Fold Preflop
[ ] It's Not Close
[x] If you can't beat the $11's, you sure as hell can't beat the $55's

Comments: I'm just sayin...

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont want to hear crap about how if I cant beat the 11s I cant beat the 55s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not wanting to hear it and it not being true are entirely different.

I don't think that the way to snap out of a cooler on the 11s is to play against significantly better competition. Any talk about the 11s being harder to beat is just rationalizing for poor play. Snap out of it and start playing good SNG poker before you move up.

[curtains]

I would never consider anything but raising here (and probably moving allin). I do think that folding is just terrible.

[stupidsucker]

As I mentioned before. This is th first weaktight move I have made. Most of my mistakes have been over aggression not weaktight.

In trying to find balance I made a weak tight choice. Just yesterday I pushed AK at level 2. I take no offense in what anyone says. Notice I posted this hand.

If you would like a detailed replayer list of the pushes and beats I have suffered then I would be happy to oblige if I thought it would have any merit at all.

I feel I made the wrong choice when it comes to EV, but the adjetive horrible is not what comes to mind. People suggest taking breaks when in a bad swing... In my eyes not playing during alotted play times is much more - EV then laying down AK in this exact particular spot. BUT people do it because mental health is important in poker.

I was aware this was a weaktight wrong move as I made it. chose to fold in order to preserve my stamina. I thought it best to lay it down, bring it to the board.

[microbet]

For me this is a little tricky as far as how much to raise or push. I think it depends on the table.

[microbet]

I think it's pretty rare that I'd push after one limper, but I'd push pretty often after two.

[Kama45]

[ QUOTE ]
You have position on the limper, this is a 10+1, raise to 400 and call a push from anybody.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wouldn't you just push from the get go?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have position on the limper, this is a 10+1, raise to 400 and call a push from anybody.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wouldn't you just push from the get go?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I have 15x?

[tigerite]

I'd certainly raise, and as I'd be prepared to call a push, I think I'd just go ahead and do that. The pot's not quite at the 20% of my stack level I like it to be at a minimum, but in this situation, it's close enough.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd certainly raise, and as I'd be prepared to call a push, I think I'd just go ahead and do that. The pot's not quite at the 20% of my stack level I like it to be at a minimum, but in this situation, it's close enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is 7 handed. I have no problem getting allin against a dominated ace or a PP here. It's a $10+$1, I will see dominated aces (and dominated kings!) all the time.

[tigerite]

Indeed, there's merit to just raising and calling a raise too, especially if you suspect a weaker ace. I think they'll call a push anyway though, and this might just drive out some of the lower pairs that may call, just marginally.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

Why would I do this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Too much vaporizer?

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yugoslav

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Why would I do this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Too much vaporizer?

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

I havent had any herb in a week. If its the herb, its the lack of it.

[45suited]

IMO, in spots like this, just pushing is very underrated. It can fold out mid PPs for one thing. Plus, it can look suspicious to the donk that loves the looks of his pretty ATs or whatever. The bonus is that I can't outsmart myself post flop...

I push this all day.

[stupidsucker]

I agree with the above poster.

[jdl22]

I would probably raise to 400 here.

Is limping here really minus EV? If you're not going to raise I would think calling would be better than folding, though I could be wrong of course. Both calling and folding clearly suck though.

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Why would I do this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Too much vaporizer?

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

I havent had any herb in a week. If its the herb, its the lack of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

you need to start playin blazed again then, cause this a pretty bad line IMO. Sticky icky icky!

[wookie]

push. push push push.

why do you have that (fairly) big stack if not to push people around with it?

-w

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
you need to start playin blazed again then, cause this a pretty bad line IMO. Sticky icky icky!

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldnt agree more...

Isn't a persons life supposed to get better when they give up drugs?

<font color="white">ok ok the drug I gave up was caffeine, but I did cut back on THC </font>

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, in spots like this, just pushing is very underrated. It can fold out mid PPs for one thing. Plus, it can look suspicious to the donk that loves the looks of his pretty ATs or whatever. The bonus is that I can't outsmart myself post flop...

I push this all day.

[/ QUOTE ]


fwiw I usually just open push here too.