Big blind crap turns into two pair

[brasse]

Ok, here goes! I have been playing for a year know and I am still struggling to become a winning player. What do you all think of this hand? Should I be more aggressive on the flop? I do not think villain holds AK since there was no raise before the flop.

Any comments will be helpful!

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO <font color="#A500AF">(Villain)</font> calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, MP3 folds, Villain calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Villain calls, SB folds.

River: (5.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Villain raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

:.:: brasse

[imported_The Vibesman]

Raise the flop. Bottom two pair is strong and you're usually ahead, but it's a pretty vulnerable hand.

[nickg1532]

i would just raise the flop, i don't think you need to get too fancy here

[Rev. Good Will]

I religiously protect my flopped bottom 2pair to prevent it from getting counterfeit. You missed out on a golden opertunity

[krimson]

Raise the flop to protect your hand. middle/low 2-pair is drawn out on too easily, you do not want overcall's.

[TeeVeeDude]

Grunching...

Raise the flop! You probably have the best hand, get the money in now while you're ahead. Just calling gives everyone a chance to draw out on you, which appears to be what happened.

[detruncate]

The flop isn't that scary, your hand is vulnerable to counterfeiting, you have a bet from your immediate right. I raise.

The way you played it, our river decision would probably depend on who we're up against. The T is a moderatly bad card -- it makes several straights and is a likely 2-pair candidate. I probably call vs an unknown to see what he has since it's probably close enough that I should consider calling anyway, but I don't hate a fold vs a predictable player.

[brasse]

Raising the flop seems to be the concensus so far. I'll try and resist the urge to slow play next time? =)

[@bsolute_luck]

i know everyone is saying to raise the flop...which isn't a bad idea really, but do we really need to in this small pot?

gutshots shouldn't be calling. i guess we may fold an OESD, which would be good. but i would think most people are drawing ~5 outs, which the pot is too small to be calling.

just a question.

[aces_dad]

I do think many gutshuts call for one bet here but not 2 since they don't consider it's a small pot. I also think given our equity edge we should push now and as you say, it's not the worst thing to have people drawing to weak draws without the odds to do so.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
I do think many gutshuts call for one bet here but not 2 since they don't consider it's a small pot

[/ QUOTE ]

whether they call or not doesn't matter. it is a mistake and we want them making that mistake. and in this small of a pot, i offer the suggestion that it would be okay to let them make that mistake.

[USDaniels]

grunchin'

flop: great flop (no flush draws) raise/cap - I think you're ahead and you should raise for value and protection and cap for value.

turn: not a great card, but you're still probably best - Definitely bet, but I'm not sure the correct move if you had faced a raise. In the heat of it, I'm sure I'd bet/call, but I'd think you could still re-raise for value here.

River: That looks like a bad card. Can't defend anymore. If you bet here will a worse hand fold and a better hand raise? If so, then check/call might be best (although flop aggression may have made the river a non-issue.)

[aces_dad]

Then lets give them the chance to make the mistake for twice the amount of money.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do think many gutshuts call for one bet here but not 2 since they don't consider it's a small pot

[/ QUOTE ]

whether they call or not doesn't matter. it is a mistake and we want them making that mistake. and in this small of a pot, i offer the suggestion that it would be okay to let them make that mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
Then lets give them the chance to make the mistake for twice the amount of money.

[/ QUOTE ]

and here's what you said: [ QUOTE ]
I do think many gutshuts call for one bet here but not 2

[/ QUOTE ] so which is it? are they calling 2 or not?

[ltb]

grunch

you have to raise this flop - bottom 2 is a strong hand here, but you need to protect it.

after that, i like how you played it.

[cfjr2]

I thought it went like this -
When you have a vulnerable hand you want the pot now so raise. If opponent play correctly you win, if they play incorrectly and bet you win more than your fair share in the long run. So both are +EV.

If you call and they stay in it may be +EV but if you are outdrawn because they made a small -EV mistake you have just made a big EV mistake and lost what could have been yours.

So rather than +3BB for winning the smaller pot you are now -2 or 3BB for a net loss of 5 or more BB. You have just wiped out the profit for 200 hands.

[aces_dad]

I don't think they're calling two very often. However I would much rather have one player call two than two call one.

You seem to imply everyone will call one, which is not what I want to happen on this flop. Our hand is not strong enough to allow so many hands to keep drawing here.

[aces_dad]

Also the amount of people in the pot is more reason for me to raise the flop. If it was just HU I could see waiting till the turn to raise. But with 4 people each having, say ~5 outs, we just don't know which cards are safe and which aren't.

Also with lower two pair we still run the risk of 'improving' to something like J's &amp; 7's on the turn and again on the river.

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
i know everyone is saying to raise the flop...which isn't a bad idea really, but do we really need to in this small pot?

gutshots shouldn't be calling. i guess we may fold an OESD, which would be good. but i would think most people are drawing ~5 outs, which the pot is too small to be calling.

just a question.

[/ QUOTE ]

SB is the likely turn bettor, so we're probably going to have to face everyone with 2 bets eventually. We might make more by letting them call the flop for 1 bet when they'd fold for 2, but we might get called anyway and there's a decent chance that a strong J (or unlikely overpair) will 3-bet, and there are a few possible draws out.

Also, there aren't any reasonable ways for our opponents to improve to second best hands unless they're calling with no pair and/or a BD draw, and our hand is too vulnerable to slowplay to the river -- any J or pair/PP &gt;7 has at least 8 outs on the turn.

Good things just seem more likely to happen when we raise the flop. We're probably being called down by SB at the very least, which is an unterrible outcome.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been playing for a year know and I am still struggling to become a winning player.

[/ QUOTE ]

You probably shouldn't be playing 2/4. Move down as low as you can until you get some fundamentals under you.

As to the hand, you need to raise the flop when SB bets into you. Two pair is very strong, here, but not unbeatable, and you'd like to fold overcards.

The rest is fine. If you got sucked out on, you got sucked out on, it's not fun.