2+2: How smart are YOU?

[Messy_Jesse]

I was just wondering where this forum falls on the intelligence meter. The only way I can think of to measure this with any degree of accuracy would be to vote on where your SAT score was. And I don't want to hear any bullshit about how they dont mean anything, etc., etc., yada yada... I know its not perfect, but they do correlate to intelligence to a certain degree. Anyways, here's the poll:

[citanul]

i don't know why exactly, but you annoy me.

citanul

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
I was just wondering where this forum falls on the intelligence meter. The only way I can think of to measure this with any degree of accuracy would be to vote on where your SAT score was.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or you could, you know, read what various people on this forum write and try to determine which people seem capable of logical argument. Thoughtful, intelligent posts will correlate even better with intelligence, I bet.

[downtown]

Uh, my sister got a 1600 on her SAT, but she doesn't post here. Word.

[Messy_Jesse]

THe fact that you think you own this forum and are so cynical annoys me. You just seem like a sad person.

[citanul]

i don't think i own the forum.

i am mildly cynical.

i am not a sad person.

i echo the statement that perhaps instead of asking about SAT scores for intelligence, you could read people's content. it's usually pretty well correlated with intelligence too.

citanul

[The Don]

I think you are definetly overestimating the SAT scores of the posters on this forum. The 1300+ incriments are too small when compared to the 200 point gap in the 1100-1300 range which I think at least 75% of posters here would fall into. Also, I would have posted this in Psychology or something.

mildly cynical?

[Tea_Bagger]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't think i own the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh...yes you do. Get a life.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
mildly cynical?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think cynical is even the right word. Blunt is better.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't think i own the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh...yes you do. Get a life.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm gonna be gone for a few hours to the doctor, have fun coming up with a well reasoned argument for "citanul believes he owns the forum."

citanul

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think cynical is even the right word. Blunt is better.

[/ QUOTE ]

[DyessMan89]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't think i own the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh...yes you do. Get a life.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm gonna be gone for a few hours to the doctor, have fun coming up with a well reasoned argument for "citanul believes he owns the forum."

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Your Location says "BOW DOWN!!!!!". Just a thought.

[Messy_Jesse]

You might be right. I had a tough time coming up with the proper ranges. Guess I goofed that up.

[tigerite]

We don't take SATs in the UK, so this is meaningless.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't think i own the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh...yes you do. Get a life.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm gonna be gone for a few hours to the doctor, have fun coming up with a well reasoned argument for "citanul believes he owns the forum."

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Your Location says "BOW DOWN!!!!!". Just a thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is because I think he owns the forum. And by own...I really mean pwn...and by pwn I really mean BOW DOWN!!!!! BATCHES!!!!! HAIL YOUR NEW MASTER CITANUL!!!!!! KISS HIS FEET PLEBLIANS AND COMMONFOLKS!!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yugoslav
Who thinks this thread is pretty entertaining....so it has that going for it.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mildly cynical?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think cynical is even the right word. Blunt is better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair point, but there's certainly a clear effort by the old guard in these forums to put the new guys down. I just jumped on to the old word; insulting'll work fine.

Anyway, I'm not particularly affected, but you may well be scaring other new posters away, which is likely costing this forum some future insightful posts. Also, maybe put the words "read this first" or something on the faq so people stop posting how they did in their first 3 SnGs and asking if it's good.

[lorinda]

[ QUOTE ]
Uh...yes you do. Get a life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell you what. How about you make some worthwhile posts before getting involved in forum politics.

Whatever your views on Citanul, he's posted many many more helpful posts in his life than you have posted posts at all.

Nobody here gets paid for posting here and yet advice is offered daily. All of the regulars are happy to recieve constructive critisism, yet there is an increasing band of people who couldn't play poker for crap a few months ago who now think they should put down all of the "old-timers" because they are now brilliant.

There are a lot of great posters hardly posting here any more and it is entirely due to the people like yourself who want free advice but also want the people offering it to be perfect.

Guess what!?, Answering the same old guff many times a week can have the effect of "Why do I bother?" on all but the most thick skinned of people.
Getting insulted as you go makes this sentiment stronger.

It might be worth thinking who you are insulting and how you are doing it.

Citanul tells it how it is, is occasionally tactless and doesn't suffer fools gladly. He is also fair (He left this thread up didn't he?) and a very good poker player who has a lot to offer the forum.
If you want this to be a better place, ignore the politics and learn everything you can while it's still here.

We are all guilty of getting into arguments from time to time, myself as much as anyone. I do however suggest that you try to forgive those who help you their sins and maybe point things out when they are wrong in a polite manner rather than just hurling abuse.

Thanks

Lori

Edited to remove abuse.

[TheNoodleMan]

I think my 1360 was pretty good for a kid with a G.E.D.

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mildly cynical?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think cynical is even the right word. Blunt is better.

[/ QUOTE ]


I hate people

-Citanul

[bjb23]

as usual, very well said, lorinda.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

Anyway, I'm not particularly affected, but you may well be scaring other new posters away, which is likely costing this forum some future insightful posts. Also, maybe put the words "read this first" or something on the faq so people stop posting how they did in their first 3 SnGs and asking if it's good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm all for being nice to the newbies, but it's important to note that there is a world of difference between being caustic and not saying anything useful and being blunt and explaining why you dislike something. The latter is what it's all about. citanul, when he is "mean," is almost always in the useful mode. People who don't want that kind of criticism probably shouldn't post here anyway.

[45suited]

Pretty much anything that Lorinda has to say (strategy related or otherwise), I agree with 99.9% of the time.

Citanul provides a great service to this forum. It's a thankless job that he does not get paid for.

As a bonus, he's also makes good posts regarding poker strategy.

I for one am happy that we have someone locking useless posts and flaming people who get out of line. Much like in the military, I accept his methods as necessary even on the rare occassion that they are directed at me. Accept the a$$ chewing if you have it coming, and move on.

[Scuba Chuck]

In the midwest, we don't take SATs, we take the ACT. So I guess I don't belong here....

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I don't think cynical is even the right word. Blunt is better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate people

-Citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

I, too, am 100% sure that he meant that literally when he wrote it.

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I don't think cynical is even the right word. Blunt is better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate people

-Citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

I, too, am 100% sure that he meant that literally when he wrote it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am 100% sure that he did.

This used to be his canned response for 'Citanul why do you keep issuing so many VBS's on all the n00b's?

Now he is all diplomatic and it blows. Oh how i miss this:


http://www.peta-sucks.com/bitchslapped1.gif

[Messy_Jesse]

Here's the thing. I made a post, and Citanul's response was [ QUOTE ]
i don't know why exactly, but you annoy me

[/ QUOTE ]



So much for
[ QUOTE ]
As a bonus, he's also makes good posts regarding poker strategy.


[/ QUOTE ]

I normally don't have a problem with him. Sure, he jumps the gun a litle on a lot of people. But just because he's the forum moderator and has "BOW DOWN" as his location, doesn't mean that he can say that he thinks I'm "annoying" and then I'm just gonna smile and say "thanks".

Ok, you think I'm annoying. While we're being blunt, I think that you're a control freak and needlessly berate people, who, although they should know better and should have read the FAQ, nevertheless don't deserve to be scared off. YOu can dish it... can you TAKE it?

[Degen]

I dropped out of High School and did drugs for a year before I went to college.

There isn't even a bubble for me.


I don't belong either.

[Hornacek]

Yay I'm in the top group. Yay for MIT Bachelors and Masters degrees? /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[rohjoh]

[ QUOTE ]
I dropped out of High School and did drugs for a year before I went to college.

There isn't even a bubble for me.


I don't belong either.

[/ QUOTE ]

I recieved an 1150 on my SAT, but should mention, that I spent the previous night in Isla Vista for a Halloween celebration on Mushrooms. I did not go to sleep, and was still tripping when I walked into the SAT testing facility. Finished the test a good 30 minutes before anyone else.

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dropped out of High School and did drugs for a year before I went to college.

There isn't even a bubble for me.


I don't belong either.

[/ QUOTE ]

I recieved an 1150 on my SAT, but should mention, that I spent the previous night in Isla Vista for a Halloween celebration on Mushrooms. I did not go to sleep, and was still tripping when I walked into the SAT testing facility. Finished the test a good 30 minutes before anyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

...and i went to UCSB hehe

[rohjoh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dropped out of High School and did drugs for a year before I went to college.

There isn't even a bubble for me.


I don't belong either.

[/ QUOTE ]

I recieved an 1150 on my SAT, but should mention, that I spent the previous night in Isla Vista for a Halloween celebration on Mushrooms. I did not go to sleep, and was still tripping when I walked into the SAT testing facility. Finished the test a good 30 minutes before anyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

...and i went to UCSB hehe

[/ QUOTE ]

So you know all about Isla Vista at Halloween!

Say what you will about citanul's demeanor, but a number of comments have disparaged this poll, and after 47 votes - surprise! - nearly 3/4 of 2+2ers scored better than 1300. That means a hefty majority of us fall in or above the 85th percentile of test takers (depending on the year), and a whopping 38% are better than about the 95th percentile. Who knew that poker required such considerable intellectual faculties?

[raptor517]

i got a 970 but i didnt wanna feel dumb so i voted higher. holla

[kevstreet]

[ QUOTE ]
i got a 970 but i didnt wanna feel dumb so i voted higher. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

LMFAO! That's a classic Raptor!

PS I like Citanul and his "blunt" responses, no offense to the OP

I totally would have got a 1600 if I hadn't been out drinking the night before, so of course, that was my vote.

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
I dropped out of High School and did drugs for a year before I went to college.

There isn't even a bubble for me.


I don't belong either.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah...where's the:

"creative"/ADD (before there was such a thing of course] HS grad, sporting a 1.9 GPA...too busy knocking up girlfriend and joining the airforce for pre-exams...lernt poker goot to pay for much smarter child's college tuition" - button?

[bjb23]

i hope you realize that there is obviously a sample bias here. those with "lower" scores are not voting because they see all of the previous votes and do not want to be the first one to vote in a "lower" score range. hence, the only people who are represented here are the poker players with above average scores.

this is of course assuming the votes cast have been done so honestly. (although im not sure why someone would lie in an internet poll... but stranger things have happened.)

bj

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dropped out of High School and did drugs for a year before I went to college.

There isn't even a bubble for me.


I don't belong either.

[/ QUOTE ]

I recieved an 1150 on my SAT, but should mention, that I spent the previous night in Isla Vista for a Halloween celebration on Mushrooms. I did not go to sleep, and was still tripping when I walked into the SAT testing facility. Finished the test a good 30 minutes before anyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

...and i went to UCSB hehe

[/ QUOTE ]

So you know all about Isla Vista at Halloween!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell ya, i'll be 25 this year and i still plan on going back /images/graemlins/wink.gif Good times man, good times.

[Smockstack]

I took the SATs 11 years ago and was a Junior in High School at the time. I had 0 ambition to continue on to college and paid very little attention in school. I specifically recalled that during the test I was sooooo bored with the stories that I didn't read them. I just skimmed and chose the first answer that seemed reasonable. I was done the whole test more than an hour prior to the deadline. I'd be willing to bet that a large number of people fall into this category and therefore the average scores are rather skewed. I don't recall the test being overly difficult and the fact that someone can take the test multiple times should result in a great final score for someone who is taking it seriously.

With that in mind, I feel that the SATs are a better measure of the quality of the education you have received the degree to which you have retained that information, and how motivated you are, rather than a measure of your intelligence.

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
All of the regulars are happy to recieve constructive critisism

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure anyone would be happy to recieve constuctive criticism, but unfortunately much of the criticism on the forum is far from constructive.

The only problem I have is the hypocrisy that is present from day to day. I really don't understand why, for example, stupidsucker can make 5 million posts about how he is running badly, and someone else can't even make a single post in the same regards without a tirade of insults and "please die", etc. If anything it should be the veteran poster that knows better.

It also seems like many people will go out of there way to flame a poster. Someone recently made a post about the most profitable way to play aces, and instead of constructive criticism, he just recieved about ten smartass "no bad beat post" comments. The post wasn't even a bad beat post if the people had actually bothered to read it.

I'm not saying that bad beat posts and "I'm running bad posts" should be allowed, I just hope to see the same guidlines set in place and enforced for everyone.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
those with "lower" scores are not voting because they see all of the previous votes and do not want to be the first one to vote in a "lower" score range

[/ QUOTE ]

this isnt true because u have to vote before you see the results. but yes, obv its biased. no1 that got a 1020 is going to put that when they think everyone else is going to be 1300+. oh, also, the poll stinks because a 1300 is nowhere near a 1440.. you get the drift. holla

[Myst]

[ QUOTE ]
PS I like Citanul and his "blunt" responses, no offense to the OP

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I hate Citanul and his "blunt" responses, with full malicious intent and offense hurled back at his "Bow down" throne.

[Messy_Jesse]

No offense taken. I dont care if you disagree- sometimes I think his bluntness is nice too. But when he directs his "bluntness" at me, in such a hypocritical way (after his countless bashes of others who make useless, off-topic, or just plain stupid posts), I'm going to respond. I didn't really have any problem to speak about with him before he made a pointless and uncalled for post of his own.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm In the midwest, So I guess I don't belong here....

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[bjb23]

yeah, i obviously didnt remember that it was a poll that could only be viewed after a vote was cast. im stupid. (guess an SAT score doesnt really correlate well to intelligence!!)

but yeah, the poll is still not exactly scientific, in so many ways.

[Messy_Jesse]

I realize that the intervals aren't the best, but still they provide a decent account of the scores.

I also don't think its biased. Anyone that votes now isn't gonna be found out. YOu can't tell who voted for what.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
i got a 970 but i didnt wanna feel dumb so i voted higher. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

i voted <900 cas I skipped the 2nd part...what was it? "verbal" or something like that...I agree with citanul

[Hornacek]

[ QUOTE ]
I took the SATs 11 years ago and was a Junior in High School at the time. I had 0 ambition to continue on to college and paid very little attention in school. I specifically recalled that during the test I was sooooo bored with the stories that I didn't read them. I just skimmed and chose the first answer that seemed reasonable. I was done the whole test more than an hour prior to the deadline.

[/ QUOTE ]
I first took the test about 10 years ago too, but how exactly did you finish the test an hour early when they divide the test into six sections, with each section being half an hour, and not being able to continue on to other sections until the current half hour is over?

Right... may want to think that one over again.

I was being a wee bit sarcastic. There certainly is sample bias: the bias of a silly poll.

And yes, many, many, many stranger things have happened.

[45suited]

I say this as someone who was quite happy with my SAT score, so it's not sour grapes:

But my gut reaction to an Ivy Leaguer asking about SAT scores is that it is kind of annoying. There just seems (right or wrong) to be kind of an elitest angle behind the question.

It's kind of like someone who just has to tell you how much money that they make. You might be a jeans and T-shirts kind of person, and they assume that you don't make much money. Then they tell you what they make or how much their house costs, and you say, "That's nice." All the while, you silently laugh to yourself because you make more money than them, but you of course are not going to tell him. The reason, of course, is that you understand that it's really not that important anyway and if you do talk about it, you just come across like a person that feels compelled to stroke their own ego.

[1C5]

citanul is great, I thought he was an 85 year old guy at first. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Messy_Jesse]

I'm sorry. I should have mentioned that I got a 1230 so that you wouldn't think I'm being elitist. My bad. I got in on an athletic scholarship, so I'm not that smart. Not being that way at all. I hate that you can't ask such a question without getting such a response simply because you go to a decent school. That was not my intention in any way, so I apologize if it came off that way.

[Hornacek]

[ QUOTE ]
I say this as someone who was quite happy with my SAT score, so it's not sour grapes:

But my gut reaction to an Ivy Leaguer asking about SAT scores is that it is kind of annoying. There just seems (right or wrong) to be kind of an elitest angle behind the question.


[/ QUOTE ]
Good point. Although I can see where this background is coming from...

[stupidsucker]

I don't see how SAT's relate to poker.

My math score was awesome. My verbal was rock bottom.<font color="white"> who would "of" guessed that? </font>

People who do well at poker general have an intuitive and logical math brain. They are opposite thought processes that need balance for poker. I have nothign to back this up except my own intuition/reason.

Also certain people have a brain process that recognizes paterns.

[Messy_Jesse]

"meh Ivy League school"... it has nothing to do with being an Ivy League school. Saying that brown is "meh" is like saying Harvard is "ok".

[Messy_Jesse]

SAT relates to intelligence. I wanted to see how that relates to poker players. Are poker players smarter on average (especially 2+2'ers)? I don't know. Hence, the post.

[45suited]

I was hesitant to write that response, because I wasn't taking a shot at you in particular.

Just a gut reaction. Obviously that was not your intention.

FWIW, this is the only place that I feel like I'm not one of the smarter people in the room. My score was in the 1300s, but its a little skewed as it relates to poker, since my scores were not typical - 670 on both the math and the verbal. Most people with a 1340 have a much higher math score. So, as far as poker goes, I have a "bad" 1340. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rest of the story... started out as a business major, took 3 years of college level math, then switched majors and became.... drumroll.... a police officer. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Hornacek]

[ QUOTE ]
"meh Ivy League school"... it has nothing to do with being an Ivy League school. Saying that brown is "meh" is like saying Harvard is "ok".

[/ QUOTE ]
ok... dont worry I changed my post when I read your new post (above mine)... just trying to appeal to the non-Ivy Leaguers out there, including me /images/graemlins/smile.gif. And personally I don't think Harvard is all that great either... I have tons of friends there, and they all say half of the Harvard people are stupid (i.e. legacy babies or athletes) and half are hardworking/smart. It all depends on opinions, I guess.

[puzzlemoney]

I got a 1580.






And my ROI over 1000 SNGs is 46%. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously, though, either pissing contest is just sort of distracting. People who are actually smart don't need to be told who's smart and who isn't. People who are dumb won't believe it anyway.

[Messy_Jesse]

THat is definitely true of most universities with lots of bright people. Lots of really brilliant people, and other pretty smart people who had something else going for them.

[playtitleist]

I actually got a gazillion or something like that, but I clicked the below 900 range because I am significantly less intelligent today, after having read this thread.

[derdo]

Intelligence might be positively correlated with SAT scores. However, thinking that you are really smart and intelligent just because you scored well in SAT is negatively correlated with intelligence. I think the latter one has a higher coefficient of variation.

[Messy_Jesse]

nh.

[Unarmed]

I like when people cut up citanul, because then I can put them on ignore and reduce the amount of worthless content I'm exposed to. This thread is stupid BTW and it belongs in OOT, where it has probably already been posted 23435442 times.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
I know its not perfect, but they do correlate to intelligence to a certain degree.

[/ QUOTE ]

They correlate to certain aspects and manifestations of intelligence, which may or may not have any practical value. They do correlate to the talent and ability to take standardized tests. They have some predictive value as to the ability to do college work.

I would guess that SAT scores have very little predictive value about the ability to become a good poker player, and in turn to make informative posts about playing. I think that many people who may not have had the highest SAT scores can still do very well at poker because of qualities like street-smarts, killer instinct, natural creativeness, etc.

Also, anyone who believes the poll results probably believes that the ITM and ROI numbers routinely posted on this forum are true too. And believes in the Easter Bunny. Self-reported numbers about IQs, income, gambling, game scores, etc., are always "biased" (to be polite) upward.

In short, I don't see that the poll provides any useful information.

[vinyard]

[ QUOTE ]
SAT relates to intelligence. I wanted to see how that relates to poker players.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it doesn't and nobody affiliated with ETS claims it does. I won't even get into the issue of racial or class bias but the SAT Math and Verbal are merely tests of knowledge. A high score is more indicative of the exposure to the mathematical concepts and vocabulary than it indicates a high native intelligence. There are tests, however flawed that aim to measure intelligence; they are called IQ tests. Heck, with this new fangled thing called the internet you might even get a bunch of posters to take the same free IQ test and then have your results, you know, mean something.

More importantly, the SAT was re-centered in the mid 90s because our nation's increasingly poor students scored lower on it with each successive year. So a 1200 in 1991 is a much better score than a 1200 in 1997 which further screws with your data.

[Messy_Jesse]

Citanul gets cut up when he deserves it. If the thread is stupid, ignore it, and move on. Certainly, noone is making you read it. I could have put it in OOT, but this is the only forum I frequent or care about, and the place I thin of as home, so this is where I posted it. I'm sure you can understand.

[rydazzle]

[ QUOTE ]
I was just wondering where this forum falls on the intelligence meter

[/ QUOTE ]

...assuming the SAT is an accurate measure of intelligence...

[Messy_Jesse]

Also, I think its hilarious that you say that [ QUOTE ]

I like when people cut up citanul, because then I can put them on ignore and reduce the amount of worthless content I'm exposed to.

[/ QUOTE ] In other words, if someone disses citanul, something must be wrong with them(!), since of course he is BEYOND reproach. How dare anyone criticize him!

[vinyard]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry. I should have mentioned that I got a 1230 so that you wouldn't think I'm being elitist. My bad. I got in on an athletic scholarship, so I'm not that smart.

[/ QUOTE ]
When did the Ivy league start giving out athletic scholaships?

[ QUOTE ]
I hate that you can't ask such a question without getting such a response simply because you go to a decent school.

[/ QUOTE ]

When did Brown improve from "safety school for the affluent and underaccomplished" to "decent school"?

[Tea_Bagger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Uh...yes you do. Get a life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell you what. How about you make some worthwhile posts before getting involved in forum politics.

Whatever your views on Citanul, he's posted many many more helpful posts in his life than you have posted posts at all.

Nobody here gets paid for posting here and yet advice is offered daily. All of the regulars are happy to recieve constructive critisism, yet there is an increasing band of people who couldn't play poker for crap a few months ago who now think they should put down all of the "old-timers" because they are now brilliant.

There are a lot of great posters hardly posting here any more and it is entirely due to the people like yourself who want free advice but also want the people offering it to be perfect.

Guess what!?, Answering the same old guff many times a week can have the effect of "Why do I bother?" on all but the most thick skinned of people.
Getting insulted as you go makes this sentiment stronger.

It might be worth thinking who you are insulting and how you are doing it.

Citanul tells it how it is, is occasionally tactless and doesn't suffer fools gladly. He is also fair (He left this thread up didn't he?) and a very good poker player who has a lot to offer the forum.
If you want this to be a better place, ignore the politics and learn everything you can while it's still here.

We are all guilty of getting into arguments from time to time, myself as much as anyone. I do however suggest that you try to forgive those who help you their sins and maybe point things out when they are wrong in a polite manner rather than just hurling abuse.

Thanks

Lori

Edited to remove abuse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Mom.

[Messy_Jesse]

Right. That is the basic assumption. YOu don't have to buy it, but honestly, is it not reasonable to assume that someone who scored a 1400 on the SAT is more intelligent than someone who scored a 900? I really dont think so.

[Messy_Jesse]

Kids recruited for athletics get a bump in the admissions process. I did not receive a scholarship: sorry for the misunderstaning.

[ QUOTE ]
When did Brown improve from "safety school for the affluent and underaccomplished" to "decent school"?

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously you don't know what you're talking about.

[playtitleist]

Dude. Your name is Tea Bagger and your avatar is a chipmunk with dangling nuts. If you want some respect, start with self.

[derdo]

Come on man just tell us your SAT score already and we can all be done with this thread:)

[Messy_Jesse]

See above.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
Right. That is the basic assumption. YOu don't have to buy it, but honestly, is it not reasonable to assume that someone who scored a 1400 on the SAT is more intelligent than someone who scored a 900? I really dont think so.

[/ QUOTE ]

While we're on the topic, I'm amazed that Sklansky hasn't descended on this thread yet. The SAT as a form of intellectual penis measuring is a theme I've seen a fair amount in his writings.

[sleech]

IQ would be a better measure then SAT as most people have had IQ tests.

[Messy_Jesse]

I liked that, but this isn't asking for anyone's SAT score- just an anonymous vote. That's all. Not meant to be a penis contest.

[vinyard]

[ QUOTE ]
Kids recruited for athletics get a bump in the admissions process. I did not receive a scholarship: sorry for the misunderstaning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a misunderstanding. You stated that you got in on an academic scholarship which is just plainly false as they don't exist. And, yes I know, as I was "expected" to run track at a number of those schools if I had chosen to attend.

And arguing a test measures intelligence when the group that writes the test insists to the contrary is just plain ignorant. Now as another poster rightly pointed out SAT scores may correlate with intelligence but its nearly impossible to assert that said correlation is in any way causal.

[Messy_Jesse]

It was a misunderstanding on my part. I misspoke. By "scholarship" i meant to imply that I was admitted because of athletics, and not because of anything else. My bad.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
When did Brown improve from "safety school for the affluent and underaccomplished" to "decent school"?

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont really wanna get caught up in this tizzy.. but i think brown is an excellent school, and one i should have considered instead of applying to 2 places i could go to for free.. holla

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I think its hilarious that you say that [ QUOTE ]

I like when people cut up citanul, because then I can put them on ignore and reduce the amount of worthless content I'm exposed to.

[/ QUOTE ] In other words, if someone disses citanul, something must be wrong with them(!), since of course he is BEYOND reproach. How dare anyone criticize him!

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesse,

It doesn't really have anything to do with whether either individual is a decent human being or whatever. I post on this board to both learn, and to help other people learn. Therefore, if a poster is not a) a nice person, and/or b) a talented poker player, I want them on ignore. It just reduces noise.

[Messy_Jesse]

Undertandable (If you can read this /images/graemlins/wink.gif )

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

i dont really wanna get caught up in this tizzy.. but i think brown is an excellent school, and one i should have considered instead of applying to 2 places i could go to for free.. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

Going for free is a pretty big deal. College is mostly what you make out of it. Going to a nice school is good in a lot of respects, but I think that the amount you learn is still largely a function of how much you choose to learn. A lot of people seem to think that going to an elite college means that they should now get an "education" without having to do much in the way of thinking or doing.

[vinyard]

[ QUOTE ]
IQ would be a better measure then SAT as most people have had IQ tests.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if there is some interest (there is none from me) in this there are plenty of free sites that will allow a relatively consistent, unbiased sample.

http://www.intelligencetest.com/ for one.

FWIW, if I were to propose a common standardized test that would correlate reasonably well to the ability to play poker I would guess the LSAT would do it best.

[Messy_Jesse]

Very true. I've got more debt than you would believe already after 1 year. It's really a personal choice, and college is definitely what you make of it.

[Messy_Jesse]

SAT's have a statistically significant positive correation to LSAT scores, so if that's true, then that correlation would presumably apply to the original question of whether or not SAT scores are related to poker success.

[Myst]

[ QUOTE ]
IQ would be a better measure then SAT as most people have had IQ tests.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh dont get Citanul started with IQ tests.

[vinyard]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont really wanna get caught up in this tizzy.. but i think brown is an excellent school, and one i should have considered instead of applying to 2 places i could go to for free.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nor do I have any interest in having another flame war.
I was teasing the OP who seems far too proud of his school's cellar status in the Ivy League. FWIW, if I had to do it again, largely for financial reasons I would jump all over the chance to go to Rice rather than my now sullied alma mater.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
my now sullied alma mater.

[/ QUOTE ]

?

[Moonsugar]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude. Your name is Tea Bagger and your avatar is a chipmunk with dangling nuts. If you want some respect, start with self.

[/ QUOTE ]

[citanul]

I think you overestimate the number of actually insulting, "cut up," "bashing," "flaming," or whatever the hell all else posts I've made since becoming moderator of this forum.

Since you're so insulted with my choice of location, I'll change it. It had nothing to do with me feeling in any way that the people of this forum owed me anything or that I had "total control" or anything near that.

Whatever.

Standing by for new location.

citanul

[Messy_Jesse]

Sorry, I'm proud of and love my school. Not because its Ivy League, but because it truly is a great place and wonderful school.

[Myst]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you overestimate the number of actually insulting, "cut up," "bashing," "flaming," or whatever the hell all else posts I've made since becoming moderator of this forum.

Since you're so insulted with my choice of location, I'll change it. It had nothing to do with me feeling in any way that the people of this forum owed me anything or that I had "total control" or anything near that.

Whatever.

Standing by for new location.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol. Keep that on for a week. Haha.

(1st time Ive actually genuinely liked one of your posts in a while).

[bjb23]

lol, the new location is better than ever. nh.

[Messy_Jesse]

I dont really care about your bashing posts. But when you say "you're annoying... -citanul" what do you expect? I'm gonna throw something back at you.

-Jess

p.s. I love you, too.

[Messy_Jesse]

This thread has really gotten out of hand. Haha so much for posting what I thought would be a fun and interesting hand. I'm going to smoke a blunt...

[Hornacek]

[ QUOTE ]
When did Brown improve from "safety school for the affluent and underaccomplished" to "decent school"?

[/ QUOTE ]

nh.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
citanul
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 07/24/03
Posts: 3445
Loc: I hate Messy_Jesse and Myst

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. holla

[theben]

SAT's are a poor measure of intelligence. although there is clearly some coorelation, theres tons of room for error.
one retard i knew went from a very low 1100's score to a mid 1300's, and i've know several people to make that jump look like a baby step

better to have a poll of IQ scores in a percentile format.

[rohjoh]

[ QUOTE ]

More importantly, the SAT was re-centered in the mid 90s because our nation's increasingly poor students scored lower on it with each successive year. So a 1200 in 1991 is a much better score than a 1200 in 1997 which further screws with your data.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to call BS on all these scores, because back when I took the test in 1988, 1150 was not a bad score. This makes me feel less stupid.

[flyingmoose]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
citanul
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 07/24/03
Posts: 3445
Loc: I hate Messy_Jesse and Myst

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO!

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

More importantly, the SAT was re-centered in the mid 90s because our nation's increasingly poor students scored lower on it with each successive year. So a 1200 in 1991 is a much better score than a 1200 in 1997 which further screws with your data.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to call BS on all these scores, because back when I took the test in 1988, 1150 was not a bad score. This makes me feel less stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

an 1150 is still a good score, fwiw. holla

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
i got a 970 but i didnt wanna feel dumb so i voted higher. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

lemme guess, 970 math, -170 english? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ilya]

I got a 1530 which is pretty good but pretty much proves that SAT scores are not at all correlated with poker talent.

[freemoney]

i would be shocked if 10 people who voted 1550 if 3 of them got it, from memory i think its like 1 out of 1000 who score that high if that much.

[USCSigma1097]

The only important thing about this entire poll is this:

High SAT scores do not correlate to poker ability.

I know, because I have one and not the other.

Care to guess which one?

Sigma

[lastchance]

1550+ pwnz j00 all!

Then again, it is out of 2400 now. :P

[Indiana]

You do know that the SAT was recentered in the late 90s don't you? That said, my 1200 back then is like 1400 now. So if you took the test after 1995 you should subtract a couple hundred points...Also, I would be interested in examining the math SAT scores separate from Verbal...

Indy

[rohjoh]

[ QUOTE ]
The only important thing about this entire poll is this:

High SAT scores do not correlate to poker ability.

I know, because I have one and not the other.

Care to guess which one?

Sigma

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets see, you went to USC were the only criteria for admissions is the size of your parents bank account. So I have no idea which one?

Just kidding, I just love to rip on USC, being an Arizona grad in southern California.

[freemoney]

lol thats a huge exaggeration of 200 points.

[PE101]

Isn't it ironic that a thread entitled "How smart are YOU" degraded into this...

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't think i own the forum.

i am mildly cynical.

i am not a sad person.

i echo the statement that perhaps instead of asking about SAT scores for intelligence, you could read people's content. it's usually pretty well correlated with intelligence too.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree

[locutus2002]

I disagree.

The quality of one's post has more to do with experience than intelligence. Any average-intelligence donkey can become a proficient poker player with enough time and money.

the SAT is highly correlated to IQ, about 0.8 with an S.D. of ~9 IQ points. That means that if you fell in the middle bracket of the SAT (~1400 for 2+2ers), you are ~ 99% unlikely to be a genius. So what.


I suspect that people are over-reporting their scores because the bulk of the group is reporting in the 85-90 percentile range. With so many million poker players it is unlikely for the average poker IQ to be much more than the average person. Of course the 2+2ers are special.