KK against a bad board and bad players

[ElSapo]

Button is passive; limper is loose and apparently aggressive.

One early limper, and I raise K /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Button cold-calls, blinds fold, limper calls.

Flop is 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Limper bets, I call, button calls.

Turn is 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif, limper bets, I raise, button cold-calls, limper three-bets, I call and the button calls.

River is 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif, limper bets...

Your action?

[Nick Royale]

Call. The pot is 15BB. You shouldn't fear that the limper got helped by the 9, TT and 99 are the only reasonable hands he can hold that got helped. You don't mind Button overcalling since he won't fold a straight or fh anyway. Maybe he would fold trip 8's but that doesn't make it worth a raise.

[callmedonnie]

Raise the flop. The limper might just have two pair. Why do you say he was apparently aggressive? Sounds like you are basing it off of this hand only. Anyway, if he is a LAG I might call not expecting to win, for a single bet. If button raises, fold.

[ElSapo]

Any thoughts about the turn? After I get three-bet, am I calling down expecting to lose?

[Roland19]

You should have raised the flop. It makes the hand much easier to play. If you are going to wait for a blank turn to raise, that's okay, but there are a lot of cards on the turn that will help possible holdings of your opponents. And after this specific turn card and the ensuing action, it seems rather obvious that you are drawing to 2 outs, and thus, a fold would be in order. Calling the river is also very loose. Your reads are nowhere near definitive, and to warrant a calldown, the limper would have to be a 100% loose, aggressive maniac. I'd be shocked if you called and won this hand.

[Nick Royale]

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Any thoughts about the turn? After I get three-bet, am I calling down expecting to lose?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I can't find a fold possible here, but we don't like our hand very much any more...

[Roland19]

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Any thoughts about the turn? After I get three-bet, am I calling down expecting to lose?

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Yeah, I can't find a fold possible here, but we don't like our hand very much any more...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why can't we find a fold here, Nick? It doesn't seem too hard to release, and I can't really understand why our hand is so strong it warrants a call down on such a ridiculous board.

I would have raised the flop. If the EP player re-raises the flop I fold. If he calls and bets on the turn I fold. If he calls and then checks the turn, I bet.

[ElSapo]

Any more responses here? I feel like with this board and the action I could make mistakes in so many places here. I agree, raising the flop makes it easier. Having raised the turn and then been three-bet, suddenly it looks bad. Should I have called the re-raise?

Any other thoughts?

[Nick Royale]

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Why can't we find a fold here, Nick? It doesn't seem too hard to release, and I can't really understand why our hand is so strong it warrants a call down on such a ridiculous board.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not afraid of the coldcaller. If I had not a read on the turn 3-bettor as loose/aggressive I would have seriously coosidered folding.

[davet]

I don't see why you don't raise to the moon on the river, I doubt a bad player would be playing any 5x 8x, or Tx.

Honestly I like raising on the flop, I wouldn't twice about folding on the river.

[BigEndian]

I would raise this flop most of the time. Flops like this in NL feel like a kick in the nuts, so I guess that has me playing them much more straight forward in limit.

If you do wait until a turn blank to raise, this turn isn't a blank. I think calling from the turn on out is the better line.

- Jim

[BigEndian]

While the flush doesn't complete I think this is a call-down. I've laid down KK in moments of lucidity (insanity?) in spots like this minus the flush draw.

- Jim

[thejameser]

raise flop. start cussing.