straight hate [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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08-23-2005, 05:19 AM

Didn't know where to post this, but I needed to get it off my chest.
Hero on Button with K-Qo. UTG raises, 3 cold caller, hero cold calls. Blinds fold.

Flop.9,10,J rainbow....saweeeeeet. UTG bets, all call.(decided to slowplay and get max profit on turn)

Turn. K..hmmm not so good. UTG bets, all call, hero raises, all call.
River.....Q..... UTG bets, hero ..... screams / cries / or giggles slightly insanely?
No prizes for guessing what UTG had, don't know why I even bothered calling it, I guess I wasn't thinking too straight (no pun intended) through the red haze...

08-23-2005, 05:45 AM

I mean, there's no real question on this: you need to raise that straight on the flop. There's no draw to make -- you've got the nuts -- so start betting for value here. Forget the pot odds, you're bound to get a few callers and knock out any crazy draws (to a house, for example).

If you already knew this, then hey: the NC post is over that way.

@bsolute_luck

08-23-2005, 06:28 AM

obviously he had the A.

small suggestion: slam that flop. everyone has already called and is stuck.

the river: sanity call. you could have 3 of a kind and split. 1bb in a big pot, not a big deal.

was this hand at UB? this happens to me ALL the time /images/graemlins/mad.gif

aK13

08-23-2005, 06:47 AM

I would fold preflop.

Now you know why we don't slowplay with 5 other players in the pot.

08-23-2005, 07:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I mean, there's no real question on this: you need to raise that straight on the flop. There's no draw to make -- you've got the nuts -- so start betting for value here. Forget the pot odds, you're bound to get a few callers and knock out any crazy draws (to a house, for example).

If you already knew this, then hey: the NC post is over that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

My forum noobness is about to show here. What does NC stand for. (No content?) Yes I just wanted to share this horrible hand to ease the pain a bit, so where should I post things like this in the future?

Now that you mention it though, the whole flop slowplay thing is a question I've been meaning to ask.
Surely this is a perfect opportunity to slow play? There's no way to protect the hand in late position and we could expect UTG or one of the callers to bet on the turn, so we could raise em then and get the pot bigger than if we raised the flop and get checked to on the turn.

Iq75

08-23-2005, 08:20 AM

whit a nut straight in the rainbow flop there is not that much of a need to protect your hand.

I think that to get max. profit out of this is just to raise the flop. They called the bet from UTG, so they are prob. going to call your raise. If UTG 3 - bets some of them are bound to call two more bets and if they do that they will pro. call your cap as well (and after that the pot is so big that they'll make crying calls).

I think that most of the callers are prob. on some sort of a weak draw or pair, and are not going to call UI bet in the turn, so get their money while you can.

And yes i hate flopped straight as well. I got one from the BB whit A4o (first hand) two days ago. The flop was 235 rainbow. Button goes wild and we cap it. The turn is 3 and we cap it. the river is K and we cap it. Turns out that the button limped second in whit 53o and turned his flopped two pair in to a boat. Oh well, i just hope that this guy and his kind keeps on playing...

08-23-2005, 08:46 AM

Isn't this a clear re-raise on the flop for value? The four players already in for 2 will call for 1 more (+4 SB). Even if both blinds fold the 3-bet but would have called for 2, you are only losing 2.5 bets, giving a net increase in the pot of 1.5SB. It is likely that you are going to get bet into whatever the turn, giving you the opportunity to raise, so I don't see a downside in the preflop 3-bet.

Fryguy

08-23-2005, 12:46 PM

The rule has been repeated over and over again. Don't slowplay your straight. You have position, trap the entire field for 2 bets. There is absolutely no reason not to raise this flop for value. You need to get maximum value for this hand to make up for the occasional times it gets busted like this.

08-23-2005, 02:03 PM

I had a great response planned, but Fryguy hit it on the head:

[ QUOTE ]
The rule has been repeated over and over again. Don't slowplay your straight. You have position, trap the entire field for 2 bets. There is absolutely no reason not to raise this flop for value. You need to get maximum value for this hand to make up for the occasional times it gets busted like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

To add a bit further, the right play would be to raise on the flop, even if opponent has an A. You need to kill his odds to chase that runner-runner (although thats unlikely, cos look at the number of ppl that will call) AND you need to get lots of value from the times chasers miss their draw.

Basically, not making this raise is -EV in the long run, even if you lose occasionally. As for protecting your hand or what not? You flopped the 2nd nut straight. It really doesn't need much protection.

And as for NC, check out the ML digest at the top of the forum. However, you had a legitimate Q on this hand so thats fine--just make sure to state the Q (about slowplaying) in your OP next time.

Finally, some words of advice from one noob to another: this happens all the time. To an extent, this WAS your fault (since you didn't raise on the flop, possibly knocking out any Axs), but this also happens all the time. At least you got the one time you lose out of the way--now go get those other 9 or 10 times you win this hand and make tons of cash.

Again, good luck.

MrWookie47

08-23-2005, 02:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I mean, there's no real question on this: you need to raise that straight on the flop. There's no draw to make -- you've got the nuts -- so start betting for value here. Forget the pot odds, you're bound to get a few callers and knock out any crazy draws (to a house, for example).

If you already knew this, then hey: the NC post is over that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

My forum noobness is about to show here. What does NC stand for. (No content?) Yes I just wanted to share this horrible hand to ease the pain a bit, so where should I post things like this in the future?

Now that you mention it though, the whole flop slowplay thing is a question I've been meaning to ask.
Surely this is a perfect opportunity to slow play? There's no way to protect the hand in late position and we could expect UTG or one of the callers to bet on the turn, so we could raise em then and get the pot bigger than if we raised the flop and get checked to on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, NC = No Content. This means brags, bad beat posts, downswing rants, "Poker is rigged!" rants, etc.

As for the hand, you should never be thinking "protection" when you a holding the stone cold holy nuts. The only word that should be passing through your mind is "value!" Raise for value. The most outs anyone can have against you is 4, and a lot of people have no outs or only backdoor outs.

This is one of the worst slowplays I have ever seen. You have the entire field trapped for an extra bet. They called one bet, they'll call another. Hell, maybe UTG has JJ and will 3bet you and allow you to cap. Go bananas, dude.

08-23-2005, 02:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is one of the worst slowplays I have ever seen.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not true. Some villains have made some ridiculous slowplays like c/cing trip As on the flop or two pair, AK. At least OP had some logic behind his move...even if it was a bit faulty.

JerseyTom

08-23-2005, 02:53 PM

More like this next time. Also helps to have a complete donk on your left and to not get counterfeited on the turn and river... (Part of this was done by hand... but you get the idea).

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: JerseyTom is CO with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, JerseyTom raises, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
BB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, JerseyTom raises, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
BB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, JerseyTom raises, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (19.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+2 folds, JerseyTom raises, Button 3-bets, BB folds, JerseyTom caps, Button calls.

Final Pot: 28.25 BB
Results:
Button shows Ad2s for runner-runner 2 pair...
BB claims to have folded 88.

08-23-2005, 03:03 PM

Thats some funny stuff. The guy has no hand on the flop AND he helps you get more value.

Gotta love the donks.