When to leave a game?

[atarom]

I've been 2-3 tabling 2/4 on empire and I'm not entirely sure how frequently I should be changing games.

Often times I will waitlist the tables with the top 3 average pots but sometimes after joining they slow down (the action usually went broke and got up and left) So how long do you stick around at a tight passive game before ditching it?

Do you hang around and wait for new action to sit down/stir up?

And how do you keep track of the general quality of a game while playing 3+ tables at once?

[Bodhi]

First of all, waitlisting the top-3-large-pot tables is a terrible methodology for table selection. What you should be doing is actually watching the action in order to decide if you want to sit down.

Signs of a good table:
Lots of cold-calling (ubiquitous at 2/4)
only moderate post-flop raising

Yet a good table can still be bad when you have a loose-aggressive players to your left, or worse, a couple loose-aggressive players to your left. Best thing to do then is just get up and leave.

[atarom]

so you open 4 tables and watch them all before sitting in them?

The problem i find is that the games move so fast and people sit down and get up so frequently it's hard to keep track.

[Bodhi]

Get Poker Tracker.

[aargh57]

[ QUOTE ]
Get Poker Tracker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, I think going by VPIP is a better indicator of good tables than pot size. I use PT and gametime+ and try to find tables with 30%+ VPIP(I've read that you actually want to find tables 40%+ but I find that hard to do). Also, it helps to open up 8 or 12 tables by using a bunch of skins (if you're on Party) to be able to mine for the good tables. When both of my programs get to less than 25% I usually move. If someone has a better system I'd love to know though.

When you're not sitting at the table already.. you can still use Game-Time to show you the stats? Do you just configure Game-Time to someone already sitting at the table?

[Link774]

Yes. I keep two GT+ windows open, one for tables I'm sitting at, the other for tables I'm not. This way you can have the include my stats in table averages box (and that other box whose name I forget on the next tab) checked in one window, and not on the other.

Make sure you check to make sure those boxes stay set appropriately, when you add tables to the window that has the tables you're sitting at you'll need to re-uncheck those boxes. Then when you start adding tables to the window with tables you aren't sitting at, you'll need to re-check the boxes. It's a bit confusing.

I think that there is going to be a version where you don't select which player you are, it just shows the most recent tables (observed+played) so you can just grab the ones you want.

[Saint_D]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that there is going to be a version where you don't select which player you are, it just shows the most recent tables (observed+played) so you can just grab the ones you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

PokerAce hud has auto table detection. I like it and I am not paid to say so.

http://pokeracesoftware.com/

For table selection, I don't like to stress on it too much. I don't have that much time to play. Spending too much time finding good tables is probably -EV at some point.

GrunchCan's patented rat-trap is a great method. If you can play heads up and short handed even slightly decently. Just sit down at an empty table. I find that the tables fill up fast and often have a VP$IP in the 30's even once all the HUSH dust settles. Conversely, if you see a lone person sitting at a table, watch out. They may take you to school in HU play.

If you are playing .5/1 or less, don't waste time on table selection. Just be ready to leave if the table gets bad. A good plan is to sit at a table with 5-6 people. Even if the players are terrible, it won't make it to the top of the AVG pot list. It plays faster, and usually fills up fast.

Another aspect of table selection is timing. To a certain extent most people can't control this much so YMMV. Try to play on friday night and during the weekends as much as you can. Lot's more terrible players show up. Early in the week is usually not nearly as good. Early in the month is bad due to bonus whoring, but good due to people blowing thier paychecks. Learn to tell who is who!

-D

[cfjr2]

[ QUOTE ]

For table selection, I don't like to stress on it too much.

GrunchCan's patented rat-trap is a great method. If you can play heads up and short handed even slightly decently. Just sit down at an empty table.

If you are playing .5/1 or less, don't waste time on table selection.

...play on friday night and during the weekends as much as you can. Lot's more terrible players show up. Early in the week is usually not nearly as good. Early in the month is bad due to bonus whoring, but good due to people blowing thier paychecks.

Learn to tell who is who!

-D

[/ QUOTE ]
The last sentence is the one I think is the most valuable advice here. Learn to be able to tell who is at your table and adjust (ok I expanded the scope a bit!)

I have thought about table selection and all the effort that people put into it. I have considered doing all these things to improve my bb/100, etc. but then I think - what will I do when I run into a hard table?

This haunted me and has become my overriding thought when ever this topic comes up. So the following is my usual plan:
- I look to tables (9/10 max) where the avg pot is about 6 BB with an open seat or 2
- sit at the first one that looks ok (I prefer not to sit at tables where someone is there > 50 BB as it is either an intimidation tactic or they have been on a serious hot streak!)
- play

I have learned more this way than avoiding the bad tables.

- I've played with super tight where a hand is always shown on the river never a bluff - best hand wins.
- Super loose
- bad position - tight play to my right loose play to left, etc.
- maniacs, calling stations

were some of these -EV or not max EV? Sure unless you account for the EV for the experience...I think I have gotten better faster by playing all types rather than just concentrating on the easist games and building a BR so I can move up and find the easy games at the next level

example
I just started 1/2 and my fears of the rockfest I've heard about were a bit overdone due to the fact I have seen these types of tables at .50/1 many times. As a matter of fact so far a good chunk of these games seem looser than .50/1 (I play on party)!

and when I find an easy game... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

My one and only problem so far is getting used to the bigger bet size. This has probably made me a bit too tight and/or conservative but I expect to get over the sticker shock soon.

Thought I'd post my 2 cents since I think about this so much.

[SavageMiser]

[ QUOTE ]
(I prefer not to sit at tables where someone is there > 50 BB as it is either an intimidation tactic or they have been on a serious hot streak!)

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to sit down with 40+ BB. It's not meant to intimidate, but to give me a cushion if things don't go right. I hate being short-stacked, so if I somehow reach the 12-BB level I then know I'm about 30 down and probably should consider leaving.

[aces_dad]

And I personally don't find large stacks at limit intimidating either. The fact that they may have been 'running hot' would actually want me to play with them more than less.

I've been buying in with 30BB lately myself.

[Saint_D]

[ QUOTE ]
I look to tables (9/10 max) where the avg pot is about 6 BB with an open seat or 2

[/ QUOTE ]

I will quote you back. This is a great strategy. If you look to the tables with an average pot size and an open seat or two, you find players who are predictable and passive a lot of the time.

Looking for the highest pot tables is a loser for a lot of reasons. The low ones are rock gardens and you can't get action.

If you look at the table pot sizes, be like goldilocks.

-D

[DocMartin]

You leave a game if it sucks.

To help figure out if a game sucks you should be using PokerTracker and PokerAce HUD and learn what the stats relevant to the profitability of a game mean like table and individual VPIP, PFR, cold calling, postflop aggression.

Pick tables with at least a couple of clearly bad players.(Others have had good suggestions for you)

To find a game that doesnt suck you should be scouting them (again using PT and PA HUD).

As you move up game selection gets more important. At 5/10 I have been playing 3-4 tables at a Party skin and scout other tables using other skins. (This is where having two big monitors really rocks). I'm still working on shorthanded play so I do this at 1/2(party) and 2/4(crypto) 6max as well.

If you play 2-3 tables it should be easy with a little practice to play your tables, scout more on another skin, and get on the waitlist for the good ones on the skin you are playing.

I used to leave good tables when I found REALLY good tables but those are a little harder to come by these days.

[aargh57]

I recall about a month ago that some guys were fretting over some e-mails the sites were sending them that certain programs were not allowed on the sites. Was PokerAce one of these programs?