Tough Post Flop play KQ-KT suited

I just read Small Stakes Hold'em and i think it is a really good book. The section on post flop play is good but I didnt think it answered a few very important very common situations like the one I am about to describe. What do you do in this situation?

You are in late position and there are two limpers, you have K/images/graemlins/diamond.gifT/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and you also limp, Button raises, BB calls limpers call, you call. 10 Small bets in the pot. Flop is K /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . it is checked around to you. Should you bet? or check and call?

if you bet what does it mean if the pre-flop raiser raises?

if you check and call to see if turn is a diamond or a ten what do you do if you get no help? should you fold if the raiser showed strength on the flop or should you call it down?

If you get a diamond on the turn you will probably have to show the whole thing down since you will pay to see the river and then it will only be one more bet to see his hand. but isnt this a money loser because most of the time you are just outkicked or shown aces in a situation like this?

I had this situation a number of times today. sometimes im in early position and there is a raise behind me. or in blind and its one bet for me to call.

for instance i had KQ suited in BB, UTG limps, then a raise, everyone folded but me, limper and raiser. i got a king on the flop and bet out, limper called and so did raiser. turn was a blank so i bet out again, limper folded, raiser raised. called it downa and he took it with pocket aces. its like if you bet on the flop unless the original raiser folds, you get no info about his hand other than it is likely half decent quality because of his raise preflop. Sometimes i bet and he raises with a hand thats worse than mine. like for instance he would have queens and the flop would give me a pair of kings and i bet and he would raise and bet all the way. again on the average i get no information about his hand strength on the flop no matter what i do.

It seems the only place i lose money any more is in these situations where i have top pair weak kicker in a raised pot.

Please tell me your ideas

[DawnToDusk]

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You are in late position and there are two limpers, you have K/images/graemlins/diamond.gifT/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and you also limp, Button raises, BB calls limpers call, you call. 10 Small bets in the pot. Flop is K /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . it is checked around to you. Should you bet? or check and call?

[/ QUOTE ]

These situations were tough for me at first. But I think you will find them to be more manageable later as you get more experience. For me they are second hand nature now.

I think part of your problem is your lacking some information on your players here. I don't know if you're really lacking it. You might have some idea of how they play and forgot to tell us. I see players who always raise on the button, regardless if they are tight or loose.

I think you have to bet out here. The flop has a great texture here. Not to coordinated. Someone could be vying for an inside straight draw, but I think it is safe to say that the button doesn't have one unless he was raising with a hand like J10s or QJs (as a value bet since they have a high pot equity).

Betting out is going to get you information as well as help protect your hand. If your hand is indeed second best, you will be raised, but that will also make your opponents face two bets cold. Hopefully this will get them to fold their weak/marginal hands and potentially buy you outs. If you are raised you are definately going to have to call for one more bet in this pot. You will either be drawing dead or very very slim here. I would have to say your only live outs are tens and a back door straight or flush (this is if your opponents doesnt have a set already). With the tens and the backdoor possibilties, you have just enough money in the pot to take one more card. Depending on what falls on the turn, will decide your play from there.



In situations like these, I think that you need to bet out. Playing passively is just to risky. You won't know where you are at on the flop if you check/call and could end up losing a lot of money. Betting out will get you information you need to make an informed decision on the later streets.

[BlackRain]

KQ I think you need a showdown for sure. I also think you should raise the flop or turn and keep betting or just call down depending on the response. KJ you probably want a showdown with as well but should be played more passively. KT I could let go.

It really depends on the player a lot though. If I know I'm dealing with a lunatic this all changes and KT may be raiseable all the way. If I'm dealing with a TAG/Rock KJ is probably expendable as well. My line above is how I would approach an unknown player.