O Doyle's Army - NEW UPDATE ON START UP SITE OFFER [Archive]

O Doyle Rules

08-22-2005, 11:00 PM

Hi All,

I have been talking to this new start up site for most of the evening. As you can imagine they have been watching this thread with keen interest.

After reading the thread and discussing it with me, they have to decided to open up the floodgates. Against their original (maybe better) judgement they will not limit the number of players that want to participate. It is with one exception, and that would be if there were too many players at one particular limit, they might cap that limit.

They are also going to raise the "safety net" feature to 45% of rake generated, with the total still being 75% credit of rake towards WSOP/WPT events. Their reasoning here being is that want this to be competitive with what any affiliate may offer once their site launches. Important note, if this does happen and you sign up through an affiliate first, you would not be eligible for this program. At this point, I want to again stress that I am not an affiliate for this site or any other. I am not an employee for this site or any other. I will not be earning any portion of any player's rake, nor do I want to. I am just a high volume player who wants the best deal I can get from an online site along with alot of other players at this site and fortunately you kind folks at the zoo with all your support are probably going to make it happen!

More good news! The time period to qualify for a WSOP/WPT event will be raised to nine months to allow lower limit players a chance to participate.

More better news! Higher volume/rake generating players will have the opportunity to qualify for multiple WSOP/WPT events throughout the nine month time period.

8 tabling will be possible, but you will probably have two accounts. (Much like TruePoker did for me)

They are discussing the option of allowing STTs and MTTs to count.

They will have SH tables and HU tables.

I think I have ran out of things to say, but I have the feeling I might be missing something. It just came to me. They calculate their rake paid on a "party model". That is, if there are 10 players at the table and the pot is raked
$ 2.00, each player at the table is credited with .20 of rake contributed.

Ok, now I think I'm done.

pokerrookie

08-22-2005, 11:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hi All,

I have been talking to this new start up site for most of the evening. As you can imagine they have been watching this thread with keen interest.

After reading the thread and discussing it with me, they have to decided to open up the floodgates. Against their original (maybe better) judgement they will not limit the number of players that want to participate. It is with one exception, and that would be if there were too many players at one particular limit, they might cap that limit.

They are also going to raise the "safety net" feature to 45% of rake generated, with the total still being 75% credit of rake towards WSOP/WPT events. Their reasoning here being is that want this to be competitive with what any affiliate may offer once their site launches. Important note, if this does happen and you sign up through an affiliate first, you would not be eligible for this program. At this point, I want to again stress that I am not an affiliate for this site or any other. I am not an employee for this site or any other. I will not be earning any portion of any player's rake, nor do I want to. I am just a high volume player who wants the best deal I can get from an online site along with alot of other players at this site and fortunately you kind folks at the zoo with all your support are probably going to make it happen!

More good news! The time period to qualify for a WSOP/WPT event will be raised to nine months to allow lower limit players a chance to participate.

More better news! Higher volume/rake generating players will have the opportunity to qualify for multiple WSOP/WPT events throughout the nine month time period.

8 tabling will be possible, but you will probably have two accounts. (Much like TruePoker did for me)

They are discussing the option of allowing STTs and MTTs to count.

They will have SH tables and HU tables.

I think I have ran out of things to say, but I have the feeling I might be missing something. It just came to me. They calculate their rake paid on a "party model". That is, if there are 10 players at the table and the pot is raked
$ 2.00, each player at the table is credited with .20 of rake contributed.

Ok, now I think I'm done.

[/ QUOTE ]

WELL WELL DONE ODOYLE!!!!

This is perfect. Now, if only they can get players...

Shoe

08-22-2005, 11:07 PM

Great Job O Doyle! Like others, I am interested in this. The amount I play there will depend upon the availability of games.

One thing that would be nice -- the option to play for the buy-in only, or a prize package with travel expenses (and maybe some spending money) included.

I would personally prefer a prize package that pays for my flight/hotel, and maybe a little bit of spending cash ($500 - $1000 - but that part is not necesary), obviously, I would play more raked hands to earn the travel package as well, unless the site is generous like stars and kicks something in for wearing their logowear. Others obviously (especially those that live close to one of the tournaments, would prefer buy in only).

Do you know what there current plans are as far as prize packages vs. direct buy-ins only would be?

I can't wait to get started. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

EDIT: I would actually prefer to receive cash from the site to provide my own travel arrangements, anything i don't use would be spending money. However, like i said I don't know how the current deal is set up.

Shoe

08-22-2005, 11:13 PM

Also, would we get our choice of any WSOP event (including the WSOP circuit), and/or WPT events, or is there a limited number of tournaments we would be eligible for? Any talk of EPT events?

ZBTHorton

08-22-2005, 11:16 PM

Consider me very interested.

benza13

08-22-2005, 11:17 PM

If 8-tabling will only be possible by having 2 accounts, I am assuming that they have no qualms with this and that players who have 2 accounts will be able to link these accounts for total rake calculations.

Tk79

08-22-2005, 11:26 PM

When do we start?

IggyWH

08-22-2005, 11:28 PM

Awesome news O...

Keep up the good work!

MicroBob

08-22-2005, 11:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]

If 8-tabling will only be possible by having 2 accounts,

[/ QUOTE ]

not to rain on anyone's parade or anything...but the site actually has to have 8-tables running for 8-tabling to be possible.
And for a brand new start-up site this might not happen.

If they have some great marketing somehow (maybe they're attached to a sportsbook like Bodog or something like that) then maybe they'll have that many tables.
If they're figuring out ways to allow players to 8-table then it seems they think that this could be a possibility.

But there are enough start-up sites out there where 8-tabling consistently would be near impossible. So this whole 8-tabling bit may be a moot point. Of course...everyone will only know for sure once we learn the site and see what kind of action there is there.

ZBTHorton

08-22-2005, 11:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If 8-tabling will only be possible by having 2 accounts,

[/ QUOTE ]

Your so smart Bob.

not to rain on anyone's parade or anything...but the site actually has to have 8-tables running for 8-tabling to be possible.
And for a brand new start-up site this might not happen.

If they have some great marketing somehow (maybe they're attached to a sportsbook like Bodog or something like that) then maybe they'll have that many tables.
If they're figuring out ways to allow players to 8-table then it seems they think that this could be a possibility.

But there are enough start-up sites out there where 8-tabling consistently would be near impossible. So this whole 8-tabling bit may be a moot point. Of course...everyone will only know for sure once we learn the site and see what kind of action there is there.

[/ QUOTE ]

O Doyle Rules

08-23-2005, 12:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If 8-tabling will only be possible by having 2 accounts, I am assuming that they have no qualms with this and that players who have 2 accounts will be able to link these accounts for total rake calculations.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be my understanding.

O Doyle Rules

08-23-2005, 12:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]

not to rain on anyone's parade or anything...but the site actually has to have 8-tables running for 8-tabling to be possible.
And for a brand new start-up site this might not happen.

If they have some great marketing somehow (maybe they're attached to a sportsbook like Bodog or something like that) then maybe they'll have that many tables.
If they're figuring out ways to allow players to 8-table then it seems they think that this could be a possibility.

But there are enough start-up sites out there where 8-tabling consistently would be near impossible. So this whole 8-tabling bit may be a moot point. Of course...everyone will only know for sure once we learn the site and see what kind of action there is there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Bob,

You're not raining on my parade, you are just a realist.

Me, I am an idealist with realistic expectations and I have all the same concerns you do. This site will have to do some serious upfront marketing to drive players to their site so it can handle this flow of high volume players.

Here's hoping they can pull it off as it will be very beneficial for players, forcing the online poker rooms to compete harder for our business.

titans01

08-23-2005, 12:19 AM

Great Job O Doyle especially on the longer period for us that are low limit guys.

O Doyle Rules

08-23-2005, 12:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, would we get our choice of any WSOP event (including the WSOP circuit), and/or WPT events, or is there a limited number of tournaments we would be eligible for? Any talk of EPT events?

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of these things will have to be fine-tuned, but it is my impression that they will be fairly flexible.

O Doyle Rules

08-23-2005, 12:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
When do we start?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am thinking and (hoping) it will be sooner than later.

itsmarty

08-23-2005, 12:45 AM

You've done a really good job with this. Regardless of how it works out in the end, you really came back with a great answer to all the good questions I heard about the arrangement.

Martin

redrooski24

08-23-2005, 12:58 AM

A couple people who expressed interest in this idea are under 21, so I am really hoping they're flexible in which events we'd be allowed to enter since the list is a lot smaller for us. Great job overall Doyle!

poker-penguin

08-23-2005, 01:02 AM

O Doyle RULES!

So um, can I re-enlist (given I wasn't going to be able to be part of the first wave of players, but I do want to get started on paying lots of rake over the next 9 months so I can go WSOP)?

Kama45

08-23-2005, 01:11 AM

Genius. I'm in.

grouchie

08-23-2005, 01:26 AM

glad that it looks like this thing is going to get off the ground and that some of the lower limit players like myself will have a shot as well.

I might not play high stakes, but i'm willing to put in a ton of hands to try and accomplish it.

sf340flier

08-23-2005, 01:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
glad that it looks like this thing is going to get off the ground and that some of the lower limit players like myself will have a shot as well.

I might not play high stakes, but i'm willing to put in a ton of hands to try and accomplish it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well done O'Doyle!

Losing all

08-23-2005, 01:38 AM

Nice work O'Doyle. Any idea when we find out who this is? A large sportsbook would be ideal, especially pinnacle.

I hope this works out, even if it turns out to be the next games grid I wanted to thank you for the effort.

Duckstabber

08-23-2005, 03:07 AM

Now, what's the name of the site? Browntroutpoker.com (http://www.browntroutpoker.com) /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I wish you guys the best of luck with this project!

dealer_toe

08-23-2005, 04:34 AM

I haven't replyed since the original post, but I've been keeping up, and I'm still in. Is the site going to have some way of letting us view our progress?

gk2400

08-23-2005, 08:10 AM

This sounds great. I'm in. Hopefully there be a way to see the progress in rake.
Thanks O Dyle's again for all the effort.
Gene

O Doyle Rules

08-23-2005, 08:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Great Job O Doyle! Like others, I am interested in this. The amount I play there will depend upon the availability of games.

One thing that would be nice -- the option to play for the buy-in only, or a prize package with travel expenses (and maybe some spending money) included.

I would personally prefer a prize package that pays for my flight/hotel, and maybe a little bit of spending cash ($500 - $1000 - but that part is not necesary), obviously, I would play more raked hands to earn the travel package as well, unless the site is generous like stars and kicks something in for wearing their logowear. Others obviously (especially those that live close to one of the tournaments, would prefer buy in only).

Do you know what there current plans are as far as prize packages vs. direct buy-ins only would be?

I can't wait to get started. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

EDIT: I would actually prefer to receive cash from the site to provide my own travel arrangements, anything i don't use would be spending money. However, like i said I don't know how the current deal is set up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind this promo is still in it's infancy. I think the site at this point is just looking at the dollar amount to send someone to a major poker event, I'm thinking 12k, 10k for the entry fee and 2k for travel expense/hotel. This would mean a player would need to generate 16k in rake to qualify for one trip. As far as an exact list of events, I am sure that will be determined.

ddollevoet

08-23-2005, 09:03 AM

This is very good news. I am interested. Thank you for your efforts.

mshalen

08-23-2005, 09:43 AM

Kudos for doing a fantastic job on this. I'm still interested. I know that you will keep us informed.

O Doyle Rules

08-23-2005, 11:28 AM

I was thinking about the amount of rake that will need to be generated (16K) for someone to qualify for a 12k WSOP/WPT event.

I know from the one tab (can't remember which one)on Poker Tracker it shows the average rake taken out of each pot. You can divide that figure by the average number of players at the table. This is from memory but I think from my $5/$10 SH play the average rake was close to .25 cents a hand for me. This would mean to qualify for a WSOP/WPT trip it would only take approximately 64K hands!

Would anyone out there be so kind to look this stat up on their Poker Tracker for whatever limit they play and convert it the amount of hands that they would need to qualify for a WSOP/WPT trip? I think it would be kind of neat to know the approximate number of hands needed for each particular limit. Thanks in advance.

One more note, the site has agreed to give low limit players up to nine months to qualify and higher limit players could qualify for several events during the nine months. Assuming that even a $5/$10 SH player would still have the same 9 month period to qualify for just one trip, he would only need to play a little over 7k hands a month! Assuming for higher limit players, they keep the time period at 6 months to qualify for one trip, this still would only be 10,667 hands a month!

O Doyle Rules

08-23-2005, 11:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nice work O'Doyle. Any idea when we find out who this is?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I think it will be shortly, however, I think there possibly could be a potential problem if I reveal the name of this site on this forum I could be accused of spamming for that site and all posts would be deleted if deemed to be spam by the moderator.

Hopefully this could be clarified as I naturally would not want this to happen and I'm sure that many players at this site would not like to see that as well.

Tk79

08-23-2005, 11:43 AM

Why dont you start your own message board for specifically for "Odoyle Army"? I think you can have a board for free some places. That way we could talk openly about whatever we want. Anyone else involved in the project could talk openly about the "unmentionable" subjects as well.

OrangeKing

08-23-2005, 11:54 AM

Great work O Doyle! I can't wait to hear all the finalized details. It would feel great to know the majority of my rake was going towards sending me to a major tournament.

dogmeat

08-23-2005, 12:14 PM

Nice work Cranium. /images/graemlins/grin.gif It seems to me, that the way this has been arranged will greatly benefit every player here.

One note to everybody. Lets all be professional about our play there and understand that it won't immediately be as good pickings as Party. If the games are in short supply, or are short handed, we should all strive to still give this new site plenty of action - and doing so is in the best interest of all of us.

No other site has offered anything remotely similar to this except the Gaming Club and True (where the qualifying period was tiny), lets not whine and cry right away if the games aren't great. I'll plug away even if they are bad, because I can see the end result. (sorry for preaching, but give it a chance)

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Durs522

08-23-2005, 12:23 PM

I'm still in for this aswell. I have a few questions though.

1. Will we only be able to qualify for 10K events or will we be able to qualify for some of the smaller events in the WSOP/WPT?

2. Will there be any tracking software on the site to figure out how far along we are?

Thanks for setting this up!

Durs

Jurollo

08-23-2005, 12:38 PM

This is an excellent question. I'm sure it is a detail that hasn't been worked out yet but here is my scenario. I live near Foxwoods and would be more interested in that WPT event than any other, but it is in October, could I take the 75% rakeback and play in say... the $1K or $2K prelim event instead of the championship? That would be much more fruitful for me.
~Justin

jmrogers7

08-23-2005, 01:04 PM

Only a matter of time before Matt waves his magic administrative wand and makes this thread **POOF**

dogmeat

08-23-2005, 01:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Only a matter of time before Matt waves his magic administrative wand and makes this thread **POOF**

[/ QUOTE ]

Mat was right - a bunch of whinners here. Was your post really necessary?

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

jmrogers7

08-23-2005, 01:18 PM

Not exactly sure how my post makes me a whiner. That kind of makes zero sense.

O Doyle Rules

08-23-2005, 01:21 PM

O Doyle Rules

08-23-2005, 01:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still in for this aswell. I have a few questions though.

1. Will we only be able to qualify for 10K events or will we be able to qualify for some of the smaller events in the WSOP/WPT?

2. Will there be any tracking software on the site to figure out how far along we are?

Thanks for setting this up!

Durs

[/ QUOTE ]

I would tend to think the answer to question # 1 would be no.

Lets run through a scenario, a player generates 16k in rake, which 45% he is able to take on a monthly/or maybe weekly basis. Assuming he does that and so he collects $ 7,200 in the "safety net" feature . The balance of $ 4,800 would be payable if and only if he goes to a major poker event. Which means he is going to have to put his "safety net" money with it to purchase the package. (Or at least $5,200 and the player could probably just keep the 2k for travel expense) I don't think the site would allow the player to play in several smaller events because they might not get the benefit of an "army" of us represnting them showing up to play in a particular main event.

Just my thoughts, but I can run it by them to see if it the same example, say, a player wanted to enter 2 2k events, then he could just keep his $ 7,200 in safety net money, the site would pay the 4k for the 2 different events and the other $ 800 could perhaps be rolled over to the next qualifying period. Interesting and I like it, not just sure if they will.

I am fairly confident the answer to the second question is yes, but I will clarify it.

gk2400

08-23-2005, 01:52 PM

Maybe they could let us use it for the smaller buy-in WSOP events that are televised. Its a win/win more exposurer for them. In my humble opinion if you have 200 or so players all thru the whole WSOP wearing there gear = more exposurer. Which is the sites goal to "drum up" more players
Just my 2 cents
Gene

Durs522

08-23-2005, 02:15 PM

If you don't make the TV final table for one of the WPT events you aren't going to get TV exposure for the company. Obviously this is different for the WSOP because the main event always has a TV table everyday. I can't see the site having a problem with players who generate less than the 16K in rake playing in smaller events. Its the same idea just on a smaller scale. We would still wear their gear and other players at the tournament would see it. Most of the players who are going to play in the 10K events are only going to expose the site to the player base at the tournament and not to a TV audience. Just something to think about or bring up to them.

Durs

timprov

08-23-2005, 02:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I can't see the site having a problem with players who generate less than the 16K in rake playing in smaller events.

[/ QUOTE ]

Especially if it's a site that hopes to get action in other places than NL holdem. You did say it was "State of the Art," right ODoyle? Does that mean they're spreading a ton of games?

grinin

08-23-2005, 03:00 PM

29 cents per hand 10/20 short. includes all hands (those raked and those not)

O Doyle Rules

08-23-2005, 03:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I can't see the site having a problem with players who generate less than the 16K in rake playing in smaller events.

Durs

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there will be a bottom baseline that a player will have to generate in rake (16K) to qualify for any event. This is aleady an incredibly low figure for almost any player to generate in 9 months time. (As I indicated in one of my other posts I would really appreciate if players would check their poker tracker stats to see what the average rake they pay at the limit they play at and convert that into the hands they would approximately need to qualify for a WSOP/WPT package. I did this with my $5/$10 SH stats it came back at only 64,000 hands, a little over 7k hands a month in 9 months, 10,667 in 6 months.

I think the only question would be, is can a player spend his credit on several lesser events instead of one main event and then perhaps carry over any remaining balance towards the next qualifying event. (Hope that makes sense) I will discuss that with them as I have already stated.

O Doyle Rules

08-23-2005, 03:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
29 cents per hand 10/20 short. includes all hands (those raked and those not)

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, that means a 10/20 SH player would qualify for an event in a little over 55K hands.

pokerrookie

08-23-2005, 04:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nice work Cranium. /images/graemlins/grin.gif It seems to me, that the way this has been arranged will greatly benefit every player here.

One note to everybody. Lets all be professional about our play there and understand that it won't immediately be as good pickings as Party. If the games are in short supply, or are short handed, we should all strive to still give this new site plenty of action - and doing so is in the best interest of all of us.

No other site has offered anything remotely similar to this except the Gaming Club and True (where the qualifying period was tiny), lets not whine and cry right away if the games aren't great. I'll plug away even if they are bad, because I can see the end result. (sorry for preaching, but give it a chance)

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely and think that people will give it a chance to succeed, since we have so much to gain if it works. It did get me thinking however. Is there anything that "ODoyle's Army" can do to help drum up initial support for the site, besides bringing the army of players. Perhaps a website where participants post updates. Sort of like the blogs people post here, or even the updates Aamazon and Odoyle posted during the original challenge. This could be covered with banners of the site, or it could even be on the sites server. It could offer a "special" deal to people that sign up through them. It would also be nice to have a website dedicated to the efforts of the ODA as a sort of meeting place for participants. I would like to see this group, in addition to slogging through the required hands, work together to improve ourselves at nl tourney play. Organize nl tourneys to practice for the WSOP or WPT events, something like that.

Just rambling here, I guess, but the question remains: Prior to the WSOP events we participate in, what could ODA do to help recruit people to the site (aside from spamming the party chat /images/graemlins/tongue.gif)?

HRFats

08-23-2005, 06:17 PM

In order to get more players you need a super-affiliate to jump on board. The guys from PartyRiches might be able to help. That whole site is dedicated to affiliates.

Benholio

08-23-2005, 06:33 PM

Here's a number for low buy-in NL players.

$0.50/$1 NL = about 7 cents a hand. ~228,500 hands to qualify.

$0.25/$0.50 NL = about 4.8 cents a hand. ~333,000 hands to qualify.

These were both taken from full ring games played on Party and Pokerroom, about 17k hands each.

dealer_toe

08-23-2005, 07:57 PM

2/4 full ring: approx. 213,000 Hands

3/6 full ring: approx 115,000 hands

I got about .075 per hand at 2/4 and .14 per hand at 3/6. My sample for 3/6 is about half the size of the 2/4.

O Doyle Rules

08-23-2005, 08:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a number for low buy-in NL players.

$0.50/$1 NL = about 7 cents a hand. ~228,500 hands to qualify.

$0.25/$0.50 NL = about 4.8 cents a hand. ~333,000 hands to qualify.

These were both taken from full ring games played on Party and Pokerroom, about 17k hands each.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Ben,

I checked one of my old databases.

$ 3/$6 full @ .14 a hand takes 114,000 hands to qualify

$1/$2 SH @ .09 a hand takes 177,777 hands to qualify