Awkward AKo UB 10/25 NL

[AZK]

Part I

Folded to me in MP/LP and I raise pot with black AK. One unknown caller calls, and a solid (on the tighter side) 2+2 lurker raises pot from blinds. We know each other from before and I think are quite familiar with each others play, I respect his play, I think it might be mutual (maybe?). I call (maybe questionable?), other guy calls. Both me and original caller have 2.5k, Solid covers.

Flop KJ9 2 diamonds (~900ish)

Solid checks...hero?

[DOTTT]

Bet $600, if he calls don't put anymore money in this pot.

Edit: Nothing wrong with folding this pre flop. The only hand I see you stand a chance against is QQ.

[pofi]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet $600, if he calls don't put anymore money in this pot.

Edit: Nothing wrong with folding this pre flop. The only hand I see you stand a chance against is QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]
One more hand is AK /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[captZEEbo1]

fold preflop yo, reason it's awkward is b/c you are only beating a bluff preflop

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
reason it's awkward is b/c you are only beating a bluff preflop

[/ QUOTE ]while this is true, its not the reason id fold.... 89 and 66 arent beating anything PF, but id give it a gamble.
BTW/ fold PF against this guy, in this spot, everysingletime.... not even close.

[RikaKazak]

shorthanded, bet flop then be VERY careful, full handed fold pf man. If he does the "sandwhich move" often, then call is fine, but I lean towards folding, (unless tournament move usethen sandwhich d with greater frequency for all so I have to call more frequently)

[AZK]

I wasn't thinking "im only beating a bluff preflop". Afterwards, I was thinking, this is a stupid call, cause we are either tied or he has me crushed, and if he has QQ, I don't get any money in postflop if an A or K hits, so it's just stupid to call.

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't thinking "im only beating a bluff preflop". Afterwards, I was thinking, this is a stupid call, cause we are either tied or he has me crushed, and if he has QQ, I don't get any money in postflop if an A or K hits, so it's just stupid to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly, that's what makes ak a fold pf to a rr. When I said only beats a bluff, I'm implying he's not reraising AQ for value with plans to go bust on an A hi flop.

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
reason it's awkward is b/c you are only beating a bluff preflop

[/ QUOTE ]while this is true, its not the reason id fold.... 89 and 66 arent beating anything PF, but id give it a gamble.

[/ QUOTE ]

I get what you're saying, but when you start to put in more than 10% of your stack in preflop, you should be choosing your hands wisely. I know 66 and 98 beats nothing preflop, but usually you don't invest over 10% of your stack to do so...

The reason you call a pot reraise with KK, is because it's ahead of hands that will make a pot reraise, ie QQ or AK.

[whitelime]

I think this is a routine fold PF. Winning a big pot with AKo when you are reraised preflop is extremely difficult.

[ActionJeff]

I agree that full ring, AK off is a fold to a reraise. But in position with AK suited and deep stacks, I think you definitely want to call. Obviously the particular players' reraising frequency is extremely important.

On that flop, I would just make a big strong bet. If he still wants to play, get out!

If I am him I am not slowplaying that flop either, for the reason stated above- if you make a bet and he gives you action you are probably done with only AK. So, betting here is pretty safe.

[GimmeDaWatch]

So he check-raised and you had to fold? I hope he didnt show AK /images/graemlins/smile.gif .

[cero_z]

Hi cap'n and AZK,

[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop yo, reason it's awkward is b/c you are only beating a bluff preflop


[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
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I wasn't thinking "im only beating a bluff preflop". Afterwards, I was thinking, this is a stupid call, cause we are either tied or he has me crushed, and if he has QQ, I don't get any money in postflop if an A or K hits, so it's just stupid to call.


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exactly, that's what makes ak a fold pf to a rr. When I said only beats a bluff, I'm implying he's not reraising AQ for value with plans to go bust on an A hi flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. You guys ever think of moving in pre-flop, based on this thinking?

[Prevaricator]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi cap'n and AZK,

[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop yo, reason it's awkward is b/c you are only beating a bluff preflop


[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wasn't thinking "im only beating a bluff preflop". Afterwards, I was thinking, this is a stupid call, cause we are either tied or he has me crushed, and if he has QQ, I don't get any money in postflop if an A or K hits, so it's just stupid to call.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



exactly, that's what makes ak a fold pf to a rr. When I said only beats a bluff, I'm implying he's not reraising AQ for value with plans to go bust on an A hi flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. You guys ever think of moving in pre-flop, based on this thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]

I see all the angles, but I never have the stones to play one of them.

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi cap'n and AZK,

[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop yo, reason it's awkward is b/c you are only beating a bluff preflop


[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wasn't thinking "im only beating a bluff preflop". Afterwards, I was thinking, this is a stupid call, cause we are either tied or he has me crushed, and if he has QQ, I don't get any money in postflop if an A or K hits, so it's just stupid to call.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



exactly, that's what makes ak a fold pf to a rr. When I said only beats a bluff, I'm implying he's not reraising AQ for value with plans to go bust on an A hi flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. You guys ever think of moving in pre-flop, based on this thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]

I see all the angles, but I never have the stones to play one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

i laughed.

[AZK]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. You guys ever think of moving in pre-flop, based on this thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]

His likely hand range is AA-QQ and AK since we aren't deep enough for 3bets preflop...so why would I want to move in?

[MLG]

[ QUOTE ]
His likely hand range is AA-QQ and AK since we aren't deep enough for 3bets preflop...so why would I want to move in?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you really think that his range is that small what are you doing calling? Either you hit and win nothing more, you hit and bust yourself or you miss and fold. Where's the upside?

[Chaostracize]

If your range is really that small, than I bet 1/3 pot and dump it if I get played with. I know it's way ahead or way behind, but you're not checking here with a set are you? I don't like checking then folding to a bet on the turn; obviously this is all solved by folding to the preflop RR, but if you're going to call it, you need to make a move at the pot ASAP so there aren't any more guessing games.

As a side note, is a small PP really out of the question here for villain?

[cero_z]

Hi AZK,

[ QUOTE ]
His likely hand range is AA-QQ and AK since we aren't deep enough for 3bets preflop...so why would I want to move in?

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? How do you know this? I thought you said you respected his play. How can his range be this narrow? If he respects your play, he knows you could be opening with many hands, and that you are capable of laying down very good ones. The Party games are this weak pre-flop, but I always assumed that the bigger games at UB would be tougher. Does anyone else want to chime in on possible hand ranges for the first and 2nd raisers in a shorthanded situation in this game?

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi AZK,

[ QUOTE ]
His likely hand range is AA-QQ and AK since we aren't deep enough for 3bets preflop...so why would I want to move in?

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? How do you know this? I thought you said you respected his play. How can his range be this narrow? If he respects your play, he knows you could be opening with many hands, and that you are capable of laying down very good ones. The Party games are this weak pre-flop, but I always assumed that the bigger games at UB would be tougher. Does anyone else want to chime in on possible hand ranges for the first and 2nd raisers in a shorthanded situation in this game?

[/ QUOTE ]

The open raiser's range is two cards. The blind re-raiser usually has TT+, a decent ace, or sometimes two face cards. If he is good, he can have a much wider range than that against a folded-to-LP-open-raise.

Edited to add, I just noticed that there was a caller in the middle. This widens the blind re-raiser's hand quite a bit, given the extra dough there to be stolen.

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet 1/3 pot and dump it if I get played with

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you need to make a move at the pot ASAP so there aren't any more guessing games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hah. Classic.

[GimmeDaWatch]

Results?

i think calling is a good move, you have AK in position against a solid player (assuming kinda tight and straight forward about his play, and they are both black, if one was red i would have folded) anyways...he checked the flop to you, you said you played against this player alot, is he capable of trapping in this situation? does he SP big hands and go for a check raise? or does he check when the flop completely misses and is scared of one over card to his High to mid PP. or does he know you so well that knows you are going to bet to try to steal the pot and make you look bad, how about the other guy in the pot, you have any info on him, ever seen him, are you totally forgetting about another player involved in your pot and are only worried about some guy who who only raises with AA or KK. Given the curcumstances that is a pretty nasty flop for your hand. trips is very possible out of either one of them, i would call with JJ with two players in before me if i was (the other guy) You have to make a bet here and hope he doesnt come over you and possibly outplay you with the exact same hand. if he thinks your solid betting into his re raise of your initial raise he is going to give you credit for your bet. if he comes over me on a check raise, i fold, thats just because i dont have any information on the player, assuming he wouldnt do that if he couldnt beat AK.

[arod15]

i dont mind the call. He sounds like a good player. So he could reraise with any range of hands and represent a monster. I think there is a higher probability of a bluff coming from a good player at this game. If it were a lower level, it would be a clear cut fold. But as the game changes at higher stakes, i think calling her is marginal. Really it depends on read. Sometime i'd put in a reraise, sometimes i'd push, other times i'd fold. Again it depends on the read and situation. But i dont mind calling. Bet between 500-700.