Super System II: AA/KK on a ragged flop

[Roy__Batty]

i'm not sure where i should post this one.
I'm reading Super System II, no limit section.
It's about how doyle plays AA/KK on a ragged flop (pages 571&572)
There's something i don't undestand, maybe because english is a foreign language for me.

"Flop= T65
Doyle says he would bet from any position.
If doyle raised preflop, then he'll know if he's beat, especially if he raised on EP since a raise represents a big pair and the flop raise represents that a big pair is beat.
If the raiser is a good, solid-type player, what else can he have besides a set or two pair? So you make up your mind right there whether or not to go ahead with your two aces or two kings.
Of course, it's possible that he has a pair of queens or jacks in a back position and didn't raise you before the flop, but that now on the flop he's decided to test you, because he's got an overpair.
You might want to call his raise one time if it's not too big a bet. The next time, check to him and see what he does. If he bets again, he's usually there".

I'm not sure what he means there:
->i guess he states that he didn't raised preflop with AA/KK and somebody might have called with JJ/QQ in late position, which is extremely weak.
->Then he's raised on the flop. He can call the raise if it's not too big. Ok. But he doesn't say anything for the turn play. And, he suggests to check his aces next time to see what the raiser does. Well, the raiser is not supposed to bet a checked pot in position with the same hands he raises an early position better with? What will this tell to doyle?
=>what does "he's usually there" means?
Did i misunderstood something??

[Quicksilvre]

I'm pretty new, but I'll give it a shot:

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->i guess he states that he didn't raised preflop with AA/KK and somebody might have called with JJ/QQ in late position, which is extremely weak.

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He's stating that he raised pre-flop, and that the caller might have called with JJ or QQ. So you might still be ahead if he re-raises. It's not likely, but it is possible.

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->Then he's raised on the flop. He can call the raise if it's not too big. Ok. But he doesn't say anything for the turn play. And, he suggests to check his aces next time to see what the raiser does. Well, the raiser is not supposed to bet a checked pot in position with the same hands he raises an early position better with? What will this tell to doyle?
=>what does "he's usually there" means?
Did i misunderstood something??

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He means that if you check and the raiser bets, he usually has a hand that is better than yours. Therefore, folding is the best option.

[Roy__Batty]

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->Then he's raised on the flop. He can call the raise if it's not too big. Ok. But he doesn't say anything for the turn play. And, he suggests to check his aces next time to see what the raiser does. Well, the raiser is not supposed to bet a checked pot in position with the same hands he raises an early position better with? What will this tell to doyle?
=>what does "he's usually there" means?
Did i misunderstood something??

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He means that if you check and the raiser bets, he usually has a hand that is better than yours. Therefore, folding is the best option.

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if i raise preflop and check this ragged flop, my opponent could lead with AK, a hand he would'nt have raised me on the flop had i bet. If i check and he bets i'm much more likely to be ahead then if i bet and i'm raised.

and "he's usually there"=he's got me beat? (sorry, not my language)

[Quicksilvre]

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if i raise preflop and check this ragged flop, my opponent could lead with AK, a hand he would'nt have raised me on the flop had i bet. If i check and he bets i'm much more likely to be ahead then if i bet and i'm raised.


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I don't think a player would re-raise on the flop with just two overcards. Then again, he might. You might want to talk to a no-limit expert; I focus mainly on limit.

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and "he's usually there"=he's got me beat? (sorry, not my language)

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Exactly.

[Roy__Batty]

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if i raise preflop and check this ragged flop, my opponent could lead with AK, a hand he would'nt have raised me on the flop had i bet. If i check and he bets i'm much more likely to be ahead then if i bet and i'm raised.


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I don't think a player would re-raise on the flop with just two overcards. Then again, he might. You might want to talk to a no-limit expert; I focus mainly on limit.


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it's exactly what i think, that's why i don't understand how doyle can suggest to check this board next time. Because if doyle goes to the showdown and see his opponent's hand (after having checked/called the flop), that won't tell him the hand the guy raised him on flop a few hands before. Indeed, his opponent could lead with AK on a checked flop but never reraise with it on a opened pot.
So i don't understand how he can say "if you check and he bets, he'll usually be there". Because that's not true. The guy will open with many hands just because doyle would have checked.

Or doyle means: call the flop raise if it's not too big and, on the turn, check, if the guy bets again, then he's ahead.

thank you for your help quick, i appreciate

"If the raiser is a good, solid-type player, what else can he have besides a set or two pair? So you make up your mind right there whether or not to go ahead with your two aces or two kings."

I'm not sure who is in EP, but assuming the opponent is first to act, I would say this is true. A big pair doesn't stand a reraise, and would be in big trouble on the turn if a blank comes. On a pro final table, where preflop position means nothing, it could also be an overpair, but that's just me.

[Roy__Batty]

as says doyle
"Of course, it's possible that he has a pair of queens or jacks in a back position and didn't raise you before the flop"
so i guess the opponent has position over doyle, who is in early position.