Maximizing value by just calling the whole way [Archive]

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ebranig

08-22-2005, 08:05 PM

Party Poker 5.00/10.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
3 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 1 folds, Button 3-bets, 1 folds, BB calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB raises, MP2 folds, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (9.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (12.20 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 15.20 BB.

Edit: on second thought, this is kind of ugly. I'll hear some feedback though, thanks.

baronzeus

08-22-2005, 08:06 PM

You should definitely raise the river if you forget to raise the previous streets.

Barklad

08-22-2005, 08:19 PM

Depending on how legit Button's three-bet was he is most likely to call a raise on the turn. BB is playing with a pocket pair so he also is calling a turn raise and doing a check call to your bet on the river along with the button who could have caught an Ace. Your play on that hand was pretty passive.

ArturiusX

08-22-2005, 09:48 PM

Easiest turn raise ever. Any pocket pair will go to war, along with most aces.

Piiop

08-22-2005, 10:41 PM

I think a turn raise is good here also.

08-22-2005, 11:21 PM

I agree with turn raise here. The pot is so big, you've got to do all you can to win it here. Make someone pay to draw out on you. I think you may be beat here, with pocket aces, based on the preflop action. The turn raise wouldn't get rid of aces, or other pocket pairs, but you could have maximized your hand. What did the BB end up having?

08-23-2005, 12:37 AM

I agree with a turn raise, but what about three betting the flop? Since no one has mentioned it, I'm probably wrong. If I am, please explain why. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

shant

08-23-2005, 12:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Maximizing value by just raising the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

paperboyNC

08-23-2005, 12:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with a turn raise, but what about three betting the flop? Since no one has mentioned it, I'm probably wrong. If I am, please explain why. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You maximize your value by raising on the turn once the bet doubles. You know that you won't get a check-down on the turn because you have position on the big blind. The reason why our hero didn't not to raise the turn is that he was worried about losing the button as a customer.

He wanted to win 4BBs, not just 3 (if the big blind just calls, the button folds and check-calls the river).

08-23-2005, 12:50 AM

So, if Hero had three-bet the flop, it might have turned into an unintentional free card play (bad in this case)?

jskills

08-23-2005, 01:00 AM

Raise that turn! You'll earn more that way I believe ...

KramerTM

08-23-2005, 01:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise that turn! You'll earn more that way I believe ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone already mentioned it, but I think it bears repeating. When the third 7 hits on the turn, anyone with an overpair to the board is convinced their hand was just made. The way this hand is playing, it seems like at least one of them (if not both) has an overpair. Raise the turn. You will probably get reraised by an overpair at which point you can cap. Before they realize what hit them, you'll be raking in a monster pot.

paperboyNC

08-23-2005, 01:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So, if Hero had three-bet the flop, it might have turned into an unintentional free card play (bad in this case)?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Normally, if you plan to check-raise the turn (rather than raise the flop), you end up occassionally giving away a free card.

On this hand, there was no chance of giving away a free card after the turn. The hero had position on the BB and could bet if the BB checked.

PaperboyNC