View Full Version : Sanity Check
Villain in this hand is a total LAG -- will play lots of hands against deep stacks preflop. He seems to know how to play postflop, but he's definitely not a long-term winning player.
***** Hand History for Game *****
$2000 PL Texas Hold'em
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: ---- ( $2781 )
Seat 2: ---- ( $4040 )
Seat 4: ---- ( $3468.14 )
Seat 5: ---- ( $1950 )
Seat 6: Heroine ( $4499.54 )
Seat 7: ---- ( $2297 )
Seat 8: ---- ( $7719 )
Seat 9: ---- ( $1805 )
Seat 10: Villain ( $9149.90 )
XXX posts small blind [$10].
YYY posts big blind [$20].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Heroine [ As Ad ]
XXX folds.
Villain raises [$70].
4 folds.
Heroine raises [$240].
2 folds.
Villain calls [$170].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, Qh, Ah ]
Villain checks.
Heroine bets [$507].
Villain calls [$507].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8c ]
Villain checks.
Heroine bets [$1521].
Villain calls [$1521].
** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]
Villain bets [$4563].
fsuplayer
08-22-2005, 07:39 PM
seems pretty straightforward.
you lose to one hand and are beating a couple he may play this way, including QQ, which i think is most likely, or a missed flush draw.
no way in hell do i ever lay this down.
daryn
08-22-2005, 07:48 PM
there are 3 clubs on board
fsuplayer
08-22-2005, 07:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
there are 3 clubs on board
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, didnt catch that actually, but I still think its a call against a player like that.
but my river play has sucked recently, so maybe im not thinking well.
If you think the decision is real close, the fact that it's a capped buy-in pushes towards a call. Even if you think it's slightly -ev getting 3-1, the extra ev of covering the table should make up for it, especially with a LAG in the game.
A /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif?
I don't think a set bets the river like he did.
kagame
08-22-2005, 09:39 PM
A /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif
I think with this type of player, QQ goes in on the turn, no?
flawless_victory
08-23-2005, 04:01 AM
tough spot... youre hand is huge, but i still dont like it so much...
you are getting almost 3:1 here and this is a capped games so i think id go ahead and pay it off.
Ulysses
08-23-2005, 04:11 AM
If he can have busted hearts, call. If not, fold.
KaneKungFu123
08-23-2005, 04:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If he can have busted hearts, call. If not, fold.
[/ QUOTE ]
do you realize hero only has about 2k left, and is getting almost 3-1 to call?
i never fold.
Ulysses
08-23-2005, 04:33 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he can have busted hearts, call. If not, fold.
[/ QUOTE ]
do you realize hero only has about 2k left, and is getting almost 3-1 to call?
i never fold.
[/ QUOTE ]
No. That's why raw hand histories suck and people should write out hands or use a converter or something.
Ray Zee
08-23-2005, 11:36 AM
jen, you put yourself in this spot by not getting enough in earlier. he knows you have a big hand here. its no secret. so bet enough so that he isnt in a position to bluff you out on the end and enough so he doesnt have decent odds to play his draw. which is what he had. the play was to move in on 4th street.
flawless_victory
08-23-2005, 11:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
jen, you put yourself in this spot by not getting enough in earlier. he knows you have a big hand here. its no secret. so bet enough so that he isnt in a position to bluff you out on the end and enough so he doesnt have decent odds to play his draw. which is what he had. the play was to move in on 4th street.
[/ QUOTE ]this is PL. she has bet/raised full pot at every single opportunity.
gergery
08-23-2005, 12:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
jen, you put yourself in this spot by not getting enough in earlier. he knows you have a big hand here. its no secret. so bet enough so that he isnt in a position to bluff you out on the end and enough so he doesnt have decent odds to play his draw. which is what he had. the play was to move in on 4th street.
[/ QUOTE ]
And what if the game is Pot Limit HE?
Ray Zee
08-23-2005, 10:53 PM
oh well, sorry jen i miss read the post. you played it fine and had a tough decision but should probably fold against most players. but perhaps should have checked on 4th against an agressive player that would likely bluff on the river.
creedofhubris
08-24-2005, 01:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
oh well, sorry jen i miss read the post. you played it fine and had a tough decision but should probably fold against most players. but perhaps should have checked on 4th against an agressive player that would likely bluff on the river.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fold getting 3:1 on a river call with top set? Against a LAG who is representing a running flush?
I don't see it, I would call for sure.
Ulysses
08-24-2005, 01:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
oh well, sorry jen i miss read the post. you played it fine and had a tough decision but should probably fold against most players. but perhaps should have checked on 4th against an agressive player that would likely bluff on the river.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fold getting 3:1 on a river call with top set? Against a LAG who is representing a running flush?
I don't see it, I would call for sure.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dunno about Ray, but I said fold based on this: Villain bets [$4563]. Looks like she had substantially less than that left, though.
radioheadfan
08-24-2005, 01:59 AM
Villian couldn't have flopped the nuts and played it like this? Running flush is also possible but I make a crying call here with the odds I'm getting on my money.
He showed you JT didn't he?
cero_z
08-24-2005, 02:26 AM
Hi jen,
Call. You played it well. I realize that since you posted this hand, you probably got shown some hand with the J /images/graemlins/club.gif and another /images/graemlins/club.gif, but that's how it goes.
I just about rule out JT based on this:
[ QUOTE ]
He seems to know how to play postflop
[/ QUOTE ]
If this is true he would've definitely raised either the flop or the turn. Oh, well. I hope I'm wrong and you won.
Villain bets [$4563].
Heroine is all-In [$2231.54]
Villain shows [ 9c, Ac ] a flush, ace high.
Heroine doesn't show [ As, Ad ] three of a kind, aces.
********
Thanks for the replies. I had just gotten a ton of beats before this hand, and I was wondering if I was still playing correctly at the time or if I had gone off the deep end...
Richie Rich
08-24-2005, 03:29 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I just about rule out JT based on this: He seems to know how to play postflop. If this is true he would've definitely raised either the flop or the turn.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless Jen plays LAG (which doesn't seem to be the case), her pf raise made it seem like she was most likely holding AA/KK, maybe QQ/AKs. So then, why do you think a LAG (who plays well post-flop) wouldn't be willing to play a hand like J10 against hero's "advertised" range of hands?
Theoretically speaking, villain should have raised on the turn if he was holding JT, but if he knew hero most likely had AA/KK on that board, then why couldn't he slowplay it until the river? Especially if he knew hero would probably call what-seemed-like-an-overbet-bluff on the river.
I could also see villain playing suited Aces, like A /images/graemlins/club.gif-Q /images/graemlins/club.gif or A /images/graemlins/club.gif-J /images/graemlins/club.gif, this way as well since he check-called the flop, and again when he picked up more outs on the turn.
In summary,
JT - more likely
A /images/graemlins/club.gif-Q/J /images/graemlins/club.gif - somewhat likely
hero winning this hand - not very likely
Psy_Mike
08-24-2005, 10:13 AM
Write down the villains name and track her/him down in the future /images/graemlins/wink.gif I'm sure it'll be well worth it!
cero_z
08-24-2005, 11:13 AM
Hi Richie Rich,
Being born into great wealth has hurt your poker.
[ QUOTE ]
Unless Jen plays LAG (which doesn't seem to be the case), her pf raise made it seem like she was most likely holding AA/KK, maybe QQ/AKs. So then, why do you think a LAG (who plays well post-flop) wouldn't be willing to play a hand like J10 against hero's "advertised" range of hands?
[/ QUOTE ]
He would. But if he plays well post-flop, he would realize that she likely has a very strong hand on this board, which would make her likely to call a raise when he has the nuts. Further, her hand probably has many outs against the nut straight. Opponent likely has strong 2nd best hand + Free card is dangerous + Big Pot = Don't Slowplay.
People who play well post-flop know that the default line when you flop Broadway is to play it fast, especially against a pre-flop raiser.
In summary,
JT- not likely at all given no flop/turn raise
Ax /images/graemlins/club.gif- Possible, though if Villain plays well, he should realize he's drawing only to a flush on the turn (no other likely outs), so he should fold for 1500 with only 2K left in jen's stack. If he had a J or T with the clubs, then it's a call.
Probability of jen winning- Not great, but probably above 25%, which means a call is right.
lil_o
08-24-2005, 12:00 PM
Get your entire stack in by the turn. If villian has j-10 you still have a redraw. With that kind of board there is also a very good chance villian will call your all-in with a worst hand a very high % of the time.
yvesaint
08-24-2005, 12:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Get your entire stack in by the turn. If villian has j-10 you still have a redraw. With that kind of board there is also a very good chance villian will call your all-in with a worst hand a very high % of the time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pot Limit Hold'Em
creedofhubris
08-24-2005, 12:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
oh well, sorry jen i miss read the post. you played it fine and had a tough decision but should probably fold against most players. but perhaps should have checked on 4th against an agressive player that would likely bluff on the river.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fold getting 3:1 on a river call with top set? Against a LAG who is representing a running flush?
I don't see it, I would call for sure.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dunno about Ray, but I said fold based on this: Villain bets [$4563]. Looks like she had substantially less than that left, though.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, as the river bet gets bigger then the fold gets better.
BobboFitos
08-24-2005, 06:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Richie Rich,
Being born into great wealth has hurt your poker.
[ QUOTE ]
Unless Jen plays LAG (which doesn't seem to be the case), her pf raise made it seem like she was most likely holding AA/KK, maybe QQ/AKs. So then, why do you think a LAG (who plays well post-flop) wouldn't be willing to play a hand like J10 against hero's "advertised" range of hands?
[/ QUOTE ]
He would. But if he plays well post-flop, he would realize that she likely has a very strong hand on this board, which would make her likely to call a raise when he has the nuts. Further, her hand probably has many outs against the nut straight. Opponent likely has strong 2nd best hand + Free card is dangerous + Big Pot = Don't Slowplay.
People who play well post-flop know that the default line when you flop Broadway is to play it fast, especially against a pre-flop raiser.
In summary,
JT- not likely at all given no flop/turn raise
Ax /images/graemlins/club.gif- Possible, though if Villain plays well, he should realize he's drawing only to a flush on the turn (no other likely outs), so he should fold for 1500 with only 2K left in jen's stack. If he had a J or T with the clubs, then it's a call.
Probability of jen winning- Not great, but probably above 25%, which means a call is right.
[/ QUOTE ]
i love you cero z
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