Party 1/2: 77 as an overpair, hits FH on the river [Archive]

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Jackrabbit Slim

08-22-2005, 06:20 PM

After losing money over 20k hands at 1/2 I'm starting to realize that I simply suck at poker so maybe it's time to plug my worst leaks and aim for a break even play. Not really sure on this hand as it feels like I made a few mistakes.

First of all, I should probably raise this one before the flop, right?

I've played a hand against UTG+2 before where he limped with AQo preflop and called down after an ace high flop. This is one of the reasons for my timid play.

On the flop/turn I figured I might have the best hand so I'll bet to see if I get any resistance. I don't, and hit my full house on the river and now suddenly UTG+2 bets out.

Now, if he had an overpair I've been beaten all the time and raising here would increase my losses. I'm also thinking that there is a slight chance SB has been calling down with a 6 or a 3 in his hand and will call with his smaller full house if I just call.

So, since I'm not folding, should I raise or go for a possible overcall here? Any other glaring mistakes?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero?

istewart

08-22-2005, 06:24 PM

I would raise preflop. I think you have an easy raise here as well. Going for the overcall is tempting, but you have the best hand almost everytime in this spot, and SB might fold A-high to one bet anyway, netting you nothing more (I'll assume that if he got there with a 6 or a 3 he's staying in no matter what).

aces_dad

08-22-2005, 06:33 PM

Unless villian is extremely tight, I would have expected him to bet / raised somewhere with the hands that beat you (ie larger PP's on flop/turn or set on the turn). So I would raise the river and call a 3bet back to me.

You mention UTG+1 is passive pf since he limped with AQo, but is he tight or loose? Knowing his range helps decide whether to raise pf or not. If he has a wide range raising would be better to limit the field size, if its very tight, raising isn't as clearly better action.

Jackrabbit Slim

08-22-2005, 06:40 PM

I've only played with UTG+2 a few orbits, but he seems tight. I'm more concerned with him calling down and not raising once with AQ after an ace and rags board than him limping in the first place. My reasoning might very well be flawed here (losing money over 20k hands makes this pretty likely actually /images/graemlins/wink.gif ) but I wouldn't be too surprised if this kind of player has been calling down with 88-JJ here.

aces_dad

08-22-2005, 06:50 PM

That's why you need to know what he limps with pf, vs what he raises with. Most players raise first in with 10s or better here which is the holding you're most afraid of.

If he's tight pf and also doesn't raise, then you've got more cause to be concerned than if he's tight but does raise pf appropriately.

Jackrabbit Slim

08-22-2005, 06:57 PM

This is just my own assumption and I might be off here, but I think that a player that limps with AQ will also limp with at least 88-TT and maybe even JJ. Even if he does raise with JJ, the chances of him having the other three pairs aren't trivial here I think.

shadow29

08-22-2005, 06:59 PM

didn't read much of this post, but i think calling has some merit, depending on the 3rd guy.

aces_dad

08-22-2005, 07:04 PM

It sounds like you lost to an overpair and want to know what you could have done differently. There is very little info provided by villian until the river bet, so your read is very important. I'd prefer if you could provide VPIP/PFR (or ranges / examples if you don't have that) for villian in question regarding what else besides the one example of limping with AQ (was that first in or after others?).

Without providing more information on the villian in question, I don't know what else to say. Almost all typical opponents would have already bet/raised by the turn with a higher PP than yours. You didn't raise PF so why would he suspet any of his PP holdings that are overs to the board be worse than yours?

aces_dad

08-22-2005, 07:05 PM

I'm not sure I mentioned earlier, but I am not folding here, it's either call or raise.

SavageMiser

08-22-2005, 08:46 PM

I'd raise on the river, but I wouldn't be all that surprised to see a bigger pocket pair on the showdown.

Although you don't have a great read on the villain, the hand was played just like a fearful, "tricky" player. Seems to be fashionable these days to wait for the turn to raise a decent hand, and this one might have been scared by the paired duck only to convince himself on the river that there's no way someone had the case 2.

Jackrabbit Slim

08-22-2005, 11:04 PM

Hmm, reading my own posts it does seem like I'm whining abit for losing the hand. I ended up calling hoping that SB would come along with a 3 or something, but he folded and UTG+2 flipped A6 and MHIG.

My problem with the hand was just that I felt really weak when playing it, but it seems like besides not raising preflop some of you actually agree that calling could be ok in this situation. Thanks for the help /images/graemlins/smile.gif