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View Full Version : Coordinated boards. What Im I doing wrong?

Peter-23
08-22-2005, 02:43 PM
Im getting completely crushed by these coordinated boards

Please help me.

What am I doing wrong?

Party Poker (9 max, 8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB checks.

Flop: 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, SB folds.

Turn: Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks.

River: 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, MP1 folds.

Final Pot:
Eeegah
08-22-2005, 02:52 PM
You went wrong when you posted this hand without looking at the preview to see if it was actually right. Take "Texas " out of your hand history. Also post reads.
Peter-23
08-22-2005, 03:04 PM
Ops, thanks.

Both BB and MP1 were loose. especially BB who played almost everything til the river and was also aggressive betting and raising often.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (5 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls.

River: (8 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 10 BB
SlantNGo
08-22-2005, 03:15 PM
What was the question again? This hand is fine. Consider raising preflop if SB will fold.
grjr
08-22-2005, 03:26 PM
Looks fine to me. You're lucky that BB was afraid of the flush and didn't raise you on the river with his straight.

I've learned to hate catching 2 pair when I have connectors. 2 pair with J2 is much better. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Peter-23
08-22-2005, 03:51 PM
Well, obviously Im not satisfied with the outcome of hands like this.

Im getting completely crushed when the boards are coordinated like this.

Acctually I believe this is the leak in my game. When I hit two pair, top pair or overpair on boards that look like this (or similar), then I just cant get them profitable.

This is a typical hand. I hit something, take the lead, get called down and lose. And when I win I win early in the hand winning a tiny pot. The tiny pots I win do not add up to cover the loses.


So I'm thinking there must be something I am doing wrong or don't realize.
Sykes
08-22-2005, 03:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Well, obviously Im not satisfied with the outcome of hands like this.

Im getting completely crushed by these coordinated boards.

Acctually I believe this is the leak in my game. When I hit two pair, top pair or overpair on boards that look like this (or similar), then I just cant get them profitable.

This is a typical hand. I hit something, take the lead, get called down and lose. And when I win I win early in the hand winning a tiny pot. The tiny pots I win do not add up to cover the loses.


So I'm thinking there must be something I am doing wrong or don't realize.

[/ QUOTE ]

Small sample size. Did BB have Q9?
Peter-23
08-22-2005, 03:55 PM
50k hands.

He had T9o
08-22-2005, 04:01 PM
Raise PF, otherwise you're golden. Pretty straight-forward stuff--this hand will make you money more often than not.
grjr
08-22-2005, 04:07 PM
QJo has won me some money. Not a lot--it's tied with JTo--but it's ok. KQo on the other hand is my 8th best money winner.

When the board is co-ordinated like that and you're not the one with the straight then you have to slow down even if you have 2 pair.
Saint_D
08-22-2005, 04:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]

I've learned to hate catching 2 pair when I have connectors. 2 pair with J2 is much better. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You said it! I have learned to hate 2 pair. I have always overplayed them. They are best when you fill them up on the turn. 72o in the bb with 72A on the board can be nice too.



[/ QUOTE ]

On to the hand in question.

PF: This is a borderline call IMHO. I would be inclined to toss this hand to a limper. You want to tighten up a lot when you are facing one limper. If you think the limper is weak, raise to isolate. Otherwise fold. Had this been folded to you a limp or a raise are both fine.

Other than a slightly loose PF call, I think you played well. The raise on the flop to protect your hand is nice.

Lets think about the hand from the BB's persective.

Flop: If BB had Q9 then his play is poor. Calling the raise on the flop is OK if he is trying for an overcall from the player behind him. With X/images/graemlins/club.gif X/images/graemlins/club.gif no part of the board, this is an easy fold. (If someone beat you with the flush and was drawing to the runner-runner just smile and hope they play this bad all the time.)

Turn: Every Q9 combination should raise you. The non /images/graemlins/club.gif combinations for protection from the flush and Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif purely for value.

River: Q9o should bet out. If the players are calling stations, call a raise. If they are weak tight, re-raise to get low flushes to drop in fear of the overflush. At .5/1 they are probably calling stations.

If you lost to the strait, just be glad he didn't pop you for another bet on the river. If you lost to the flush, put the villain on your buddy list. He made a ton of mistakes.

-D

Your next assignment. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/favlinker.php?Cat=&amp;Entry=88843&amp;F_Board=micro&amp;Threa d=2089249&amp;partnumber=1&amp;postmarker=)
Peter-23
08-22-2005, 04:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
When the board is co-ordinated like that and you're not the one with the straight then you have to slow down even if you have 2 pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Slow down, all right but do you mean Check/call or should I even consider check/fold?
grjr
08-22-2005, 04:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When the board is co-ordinated like that and you're not the one with the straight then you have to slow down even if you have 2 pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Slow down, all right but do you mean Check/call or should I even consider check/fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, this hand was weird because you were the only one betting. I don't see where you did anything wrong here since checking behind on the river with 2 pair would be weak.

I was talking more about when the board is like that and 2 people are betting and raising and you have 2 pair. It's hard to know when to call and try to fill up on the river and when to fold the turn (or river).

I tend to take 2 pair too far much of the time because I know that they don't know I have 2 pair. I usually end up kicking myself for calling down though. Agianst one bettor it doesn't cost you as much though.
aces_dad
08-22-2005, 04:32 PM
In this example, villian didn't bet or c/r the turn when he made his straight. And again he didn't lead or c/r the river (probably scared of a flush).

I really don't see anything wrong with how you played this hand. You could have saved yourself one BB on the river by taking the free showdown, but if you never value bet on scary boards, especially when little or no agression is shown, is leaving money on the table against LPP's.
MrWookie47
08-22-2005, 04:47 PM
This hand is perfect. You should be thanking villain for not taking an extra bet off of you. You never were offered any evidence that your hand was second best, and you played appropriately.

One of the things you have to start realizing is that you're not entitled to any pot until the chips slide your way. All you can do is play every pot to the best of your ability and let the direction the money slides take care of itself. If you're playing good poker, you'll have big enough pots sliding your way often enough in the long run. You need to learn to quickly get over the shock of finding out you didn't have the best hand in order to realize that you were not charged at least one additional BB to show your hand down. Sometimes the cards just come in a manner that you're destined to lose a lot of money, and you lost pretty much the minimum here. If you lose the minimum when the cards fall poorly, then your wins can easily make up for it.