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View Full Version : An okay spot for c/c, c/c, bet?

private joker
08-22-2005, 02:02 PM
Villain has been active in a lot of pots, but that's all I really know about him so far. He seems loose, but I've been at the table for like 3 orbits.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.20 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5.20 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets
Entity
08-22-2005, 02:10 PM
I would fold this preflop unless he's a known maniac. Same goes for check-folding the turn.

I generally don't think you get folds from better hands on boards like this either, but it's an interesting bluff situation I suppose.

Rob
Haupt_234
08-22-2005, 02:14 PM
I don't think you should be calling this preflop to get it HU OOP against a semi-unknown villan who raised UTG.

Given that you called, I would check/call the flop and check/fold the turn UI.

Haupt_234
private joker
08-22-2005, 02:14 PM
I think he would open with any pair, medium suited connectors, JTo+, Ax, Kxs. That was my range, but as I said I didn't have the most solid read ever. It's just my reasoning for defending the blind there.
kamelion44
08-22-2005, 02:26 PM
I was just wondering, could you guys tell me what the motivation for CC the flop is if we're planning on CF the turn? We're not getting the odds to improve, especially on a one card draw, and rarely does a CC inspire an aggressor to slow down even with a worse hand. Is that the idea though? To see if he slows down on the turn once we CC?
ISF
08-22-2005, 02:50 PM
I think C/C C/C C/F would be better.
Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!
08-22-2005, 03:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think C/C C/C C/F would be better.

[/ QUOTE ]

he should fold the turn if hes not gonna see the showdown. I say c/c c/c c/c unimproved. or c/c c/f c/f.
Entity
08-22-2005, 03:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think he would open with any pair, medium suited connectors, JTo+, Ax, Kxs. That was my range, but as I said I didn't have the most solid read ever. It's just my reasoning for defending the blind there.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's borderline maniacal UTG raising standards -- over 30% PFR -- and should be noted. That's not just a bit "loose" -- it's pretty crazy. And against that sort of player I'd probably just check-call all the way to the river. He's really not the sort of player in general to be betting all the way and then folding, even on a 4-straight board.

Rob
mcvalenc
08-22-2005, 04:58 PM
I'm not 100% sure about this, but here's my take.

A reasonable preflop raiser would tend to worry about the big blind calling his flop bet on an AKx board, since those flops are typically scary to most players who are against a preflop raiser. For this reason, he would more often check behind on the turn unless he had a good hand (at the least, a pair of aces or better). These situations are obviously player-dependent, but I this is one possible interpretation.
spamuell
08-22-2005, 05:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think C/C C/C C/F would be better.

[/ QUOTE ]

he should fold the turn if hes not gonna see the showdown. I say c/c c/c c/c unimproved. or c/c c/f c/f.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with ISF here. I think the point is that villian could well fire again with worse hands on the turn and then check behind on the river. I don't like betting the river, I don't think you get called by a worse hand more than 50% of the time.

Also, how are you check-folding the turn and river? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
08-22-2005, 05:16 PM
I fold this preflop barring a good read. Much like in 10-handed, I treat an UTG raise with some respect.

Given you call though, I think I c/r the flop. If he 3-bets, call and fold UI. If he calls, lead the turn and fold to a raise. If he calls the turn, I check/fold the river. Being out of position is tough here.

&lt;post edit&gt;Meh, maybe bet the river. Given the 4 straight, you might get a fold by an ace. Unlikely, but I hate check/call or check/fold.

Did I mention fold preflop? /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Guy McSucker
08-22-2005, 05:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]

He's really not the sort of player in general to be betting all the way and then folding, even on a 4-straight board.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think the river bet is supposed to be a value bet rather than a bluff. We don't expect this guy to fold, we don't want to fold ourselves, he will bet all the hands that beat us, but might check through with some hands that we beat. So we bet rather than checking and calling.

Given that we got here, I like the bet.

Guy.
Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!
08-22-2005, 05:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Also, how are you check-folding the turn and river? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

you have to be really really good...
Lost Wages
08-22-2005, 05:31 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like betting the river, I don't think you get called by a worse hand more than 50% of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]

The &gt;50% rule only applies when you are in position. OOP, if you are going to showdown, it is usually better to bet as an underdog than to check and call as an even bigger dog. In this hand it's a little unclear since there is a reasonable chance that if you check, the villian will check behind with better hands saving you a bet.

Lost Wages
private joker
08-22-2005, 07:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]


That's borderline maniacal UTG raising standards -- over 30% PFR -- and should be noted. That's not just a bit "loose" -- it's pretty crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Since I'm relatively inexperienced at 5/10 6-max I wasn't sure what the standards were (I'm 25/16, btw).

Turns out he had A5o and just called the river and MHING.