river nightmares

[oddjob]

i hae a lot of trouble lately believing that someone has a really crappy hand. such as if there's 744 rainbow on the flow, i can't bring myself to believe that someone has that 4. then i get shown something truly ridiculous, such as 94o. these are with pots that have been raised preflop too.

or come the river a gut shot is made, i just don't see it, or i can't bring myself to believe that someone has called big bets preflop, flop, and the turn with such an outrageous draw. but it seems to be happening to me a lot lately... and i mean a lot.

now i know, i want these players in the game, but when they seem to be hitting, it gets frustrating as hell, and i've started playing a very weak river game. i check down, instead of value betting, because now i'm too cautious of some stupid river card gutshot, or what not.

nobody wants to hear the bad beats stories, so i'll refrain, but is there anything i can do to get out of this drowning in the river mindset now? i mean i was in a sweet game with one of the worst players i've ever had the pleasure of playing with, shorthanded as well. he played almost everything for any raise. usually to the river as long as he had a pair, but he caught some stupid ridiculous cards on me at the river.

there was a run of about 6 hands in a row, where i had strong hands taken down. and i did all i could from going on tilt. but on the inside i was fuming. so on the flipside i started playing very weak on the river. and i was kinda ashamed of the way i was playing, but i was saving myself some money.

anyone got any advice. what do you do when this happens, and the game's theorically too sweet to leave.

[Jimbo]

When you bet on the river and a normally passive calling station raises just look to see how the board changed. If the river card could have possibly made a better hand than the hand you bet with then bullet fold! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[Trefo]

We've all been there. The only problem is your not remembering your winning hands only your losing. I'm sure in the long run those guys who stay in on a preflop raise with 9-4 off have lost to you much more than they've won. Only problem is it's such a ridiculous play that is stays embedded with you for awhile. Stay aggressive and value bet your river and if someone beats you with a miracle card so be it, it'll make that bad player think he's playing right, but in the long run you'll be getting the best of it.

[oddjob]

you're absolutely right. the frustrating part was this guy dropped about $150 to me earlier that night, but then went on a miracle run of catching cards against me. his play was so irrational i couldn't put him on a hand. i had strong hands cracked by the river the last hour or so against him, many times, and i had to leave, so i couldn't stick around and get him back.

it was quite frustrating.

[elysium]

hi odd
o.k., let's see. you're getting drawn out on by bad players; and in this case bad means bad, not good correct? o.k., and if you were winning the game would be sweet. so we'll say sweet game with an asterisk after sweet to denote a tart or bitter game. a could be sweet* but losing money by constantly being drawn out on is bitterly frustrating as a footnote.

what you must do is raise with the best hands early on the pre-flop, and continue raising, and betting out all the way to the river. you want cards that can hold up well unimproved like AA, KK, QQ and big suited connectors played a little on the slow side early, and then bet heavily when you complete. you must be prepared to bet over pairs unimproved strongly all the way to the river. never let the draw outs get you down. these are precisely the type of players that you want to play against, only play stronger cards not weaker.

the big mistake you're making is you're lowering your starting standards to those of your opponents. play tighter and stronger early, and do not back down on the river. you won't always win and yes you will be drawn out on, but these are the most profittable games to be in.

do not give up or become discouraged by the draw outs. instead use them to be your own hold em bank-roll baker. let them throw chaff, as long as you're upwind with better cards, and you have a sufficient bank-roll, a yeasty bank-roll, what's a little chaff in the eyes now and then. run upwind with the leven.

[bernie]

you leave.

nothing like a little entitlement.

first time youve been on a table that your the best player and lose? get used to it. it happens. it's what makes holdem so much fun! yeah right.

if you start fuming and forgetting how much you may be making in the longrun against these players, it's time to take a walk or leave. even if the game is good. you wont be in the right frame of mind to take advantage. what's worse than bad players is a good player on tilt. your advantage is gone.

that said, ive adjusted at times the way you did, and if you start reading/'feeling' the game right, you can save chips. whether this was your case or not, i dont know.

welcome to the game

b