KK, 4th hand of a $33, call or fold on the flop?

[tigerite]

Not really any reads. Both seemed loose but it's hard to tell as it's the 4th hand.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 (t760)
UTG+2 (t885)
MP1 (t855)
Hero (t800)
MP3 (t790)
CO (t755)
Button (t950)
SB (t755)
BB (t800)
UTG (t650)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises to t80</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t160</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls t145, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls t80.

Flop: (t505) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t640 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises to t725 (All-In)</font>

As I have KK I don't think KQ is all that likely. Can't totally rule out JJ-99 or JT completely. Any other hands I have crushed.

[thesharpie]

I think I'd fold, you're drawing a majority of the time here. Maybe you have to call at this level though? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[emptypockets]

I would fold on the flop because of the reraise by UTG+2. The only reasonable hand for UTG+2 to call a push with here is OP, a set or maybe a straightdraw.
You still have T$640 left to work with and blinds are only T$10/15.

ps Why didn´t you push pf?

[tigerite]

There was only ~100 in the pot, a push seemed a bit stupid when I'm hoping to get paid off with KK. I maybe should have raised more, to t250-300 say.

[emptypockets]

UTG+2 raises to T$80; I don´t think it´s unlikely he will call a push. Anyway T$250-300 is better than T$160.
What´s your range on them on the flop?

[Freudian]

I'd fold. I can't see how KK is ahead here.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+2 raises to T$80; I don´t think it´s unlikely he will call a push. Anyway T$250-300 is better than T$160.
What´s your range on them on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's hard to say. No reads but both seem loose. I could put the LP position guy on the draw or AJ, but the UTG+2 I haven't any idea what his hand is.

[emptypockets]

This is a tough spot, but I´d still go for the fold. However, if they have something like AJ and QQ u have a great shot at having a monsterstack already at level 1.
But I take it from your posts that you have enough skill not having to take those kind of risks this early.

[tigerite]

Yeah, usually. Something just seemed wrong about the all-ins, because surely neither of them was worried about me having the draw (or either of them, for that matter) so why play it so fast? At least from the point of view of the late position pusher, I don't think he has much of a hand at all. I am worried about UTG+2's far more than his.

[emptypockets]

I think BB has a Q or something, and wants to represent the straight / scare everyone out of the flop. UTG+2 probably has a made hand that beats your KK. A straight is unlikely so the most logical would be JJ.
Seems right?

[bennies]

I reraise to 250 preflop, I even do this with AA /images/graemlins/smile.gif . I fold on the flop even if it suks.

[Isura]

I also like a bigger raise preflop, or a push. It's very likely that the raiser is calling a preflop push after raising 80.

[elcheapo]

I think a larger reraise is in order 250-300 to make the flop easier to play. The BB calling screwed up this hand as you're at best 25% to win this hand after 2 allins. I fold but I'll be shown AJ and QQ and say damnit.

[PokerProdigy]

Good call on the turn here, if you're beat you're beat but I would NEVER lay this down. Preflop though you might want to raise a little more than 80.

[PokerProdigy]

[ QUOTE ]
Good call on the turn here, if you're beat you're beat but I would NEVER lay this down. Preflop though you might want to raise a little more than 80.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoops, I misread the hand and didn't see the UTG+2 was the one who pushed after UTG+1 bet. I thought you were the one who pushed after UTG+1.

This is a really tough spot to be in and I'd probably fold (but maybe I would call /images/graemlins/smirk.gif, I really don't know). The standard play here is probably a fold.

[tigerite]

OK well usually I would fold this, and I really felt like it was a mistake to call, but I did. They both turned over AJ, but I feel like I'm usually behind here. Thanks for the input all.

Oh and no I didn't win the hand - but didn't want people to think it was a bad beat post /images/graemlins/grin.gif